The Truth Is Out There...
- Thread starter Popeye
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JohnF
Guest
... and we have a pic to prove it. 8)
JohnF
OP
Popeye
Contributor
Me and MHK, we be mates.
I've known him for 4 years give or take, and have been diving with him in West Palm.
The primary reason I went to Gilboa last month was to surprise him (it worked).
I was in one of the first DIR demos ever to be done, and respect MHK as one of the most knowlegable divers I know.
And I know many.
I'm an expert on recreational applications of DIR.
I know what works and what doesn't, what's fluff and what's foundation.
Mike and I agree 90% of the time, or more, on diving stuff.
He got me diving a long hose and backplate, fer instance.
But his dive world is much different than mine.
He's an advanced technical diver, and I'm a rec/tech dive gypsy.
I'm a DIR supporter for no other reason than it's primary goal is to increase diver safety and awareness, and even if you're a DIR detractor, DIR has done at least that for you.
I am not a DIR diver.
Besides being rather rotund, there's a DIR personality or two that has made my list of things to do, and I don't suffer fools gladly.
diverbrian, unless thats a saltwater pool it prob.wont help thier buoancy when they get to saaltwater ,that might be part of the prob. there are some divemasters who check buoancy before diving in saltwater ,and if thats the case its just bad divers
does anyone out there think the formula for going from fresh water to salt is 100% correct ,prob not you need to try it and see depending on gear and body ,anyways just my opinion
does anyone out there think the formula for going from fresh water to salt is 100% correct ,prob not you need to try it and see depending on gear and body ,anyways just my opinion
The DM/instructor in Provo did make people do a buoyancy check before continuing with the diving for the day. I was nervous about that myself prior to the trip as I was in the position of never having dove in saltwater prior to then with about 40 dives under my belt. I was also using a far lighter suit than I was used to having dove in cold water all the time. I found my buoyancy control far easier in that water than my typical cold freshwater. Don't ask me why because I can't explain it.
You are right, these were divers who were improperly trained or no longer proficient. The "fire coral" case was a diver who had been certified for a long time, but hadn't dove for a few years. What was frustrating is that he still was having problems and he had been diving there for about a week. The ear problems were training issues by some unknown instructor. Once the people improved their techniques in order to descend in a controlled manner and cleared more frequently (at the suggestion of our LDS owner), they had no more ear problems and enjoyed diving the rest of the week.
As to the quarry incidents that I refer to, those are in freshwater (obviously). That is where I see the biggest issues with students being passed with poor buoyancy control. The checkout dives up here are in those conditions. As many of the other instructors and Popeye point out, I know of many instructors (including my own) that teach three things about diving if nothing else:
1) buoyancy control,
2) buoyancy control and
(you guessed it)
3)buoyancy control.
As a result, I am sensitive to it and I am still not (nor ever will be) completely happy with my own. There are many instructors that don't demand it. This is across the spectrum of recreational agencies. They call this good and bad instructors.
I was in a crabby mood when I wrote that post in any case. It just seems rare to me when I am diving with groups outside of the people that trained me where somebody DOESN'T have some sort of problem. And it all seems to start with poor buoyancy control. I apologize if I offended anyone, I am not out to do that. I just stated my observations. The divers down in the warmer waters are a better judge of what is normal in those climates than I am. I defer to their wisdom.
You are right, these were divers who were improperly trained or no longer proficient. The "fire coral" case was a diver who had been certified for a long time, but hadn't dove for a few years. What was frustrating is that he still was having problems and he had been diving there for about a week. The ear problems were training issues by some unknown instructor. Once the people improved their techniques in order to descend in a controlled manner and cleared more frequently (at the suggestion of our LDS owner), they had no more ear problems and enjoyed diving the rest of the week.
As to the quarry incidents that I refer to, those are in freshwater (obviously). That is where I see the biggest issues with students being passed with poor buoyancy control. The checkout dives up here are in those conditions. As many of the other instructors and Popeye point out, I know of many instructors (including my own) that teach three things about diving if nothing else:
1) buoyancy control,
2) buoyancy control and
(you guessed it)
3)buoyancy control.
As a result, I am sensitive to it and I am still not (nor ever will be) completely happy with my own. There are many instructors that don't demand it. This is across the spectrum of recreational agencies. They call this good and bad instructors.
I was in a crabby mood when I wrote that post in any case. It just seems rare to me when I am diving with groups outside of the people that trained me where somebody DOESN'T have some sort of problem. And it all seems to start with poor buoyancy control. I apologize if I offended anyone, I am not out to do that. I just stated my observations. The divers down in the warmer waters are a better judge of what is normal in those climates than I am. I defer to their wisdom.
you are correct however diverbrian buoancy control is in my opinion a important but for rewasons beyond me overlooked skill
to me its just or more important than clearing your mask and finding your reg. all easy skills to master but more time is spent on these other skills ,and it should be changed ,i think some instructors think that time will teach some skills such as gas management and buoancy control but having divers come down on top of you while enjoying yourself is no fun and kind of pisses
off ,theres your need for mask clearing when it gets kicked off from above lol maybe that will happen to the next out of control diver who lands on my head ,no prob not because someone would prob have to help them back to the surface ,i do aggre with you however just making the saltwater point
to me its just or more important than clearing your mask and finding your reg. all easy skills to master but more time is spent on these other skills ,and it should be changed ,i think some instructors think that time will teach some skills such as gas management and buoancy control but having divers come down on top of you while enjoying yourself is no fun and kind of pisses
off ,theres your need for mask clearing when it gets kicked off from above lol maybe that will happen to the next out of control diver who lands on my head ,no prob not because someone would prob have to help them back to the surface ,i do aggre with you however just making the saltwater point
Popeye,
I am glad that you had a great trip. I hope to have the opportunity to dive salt water again pretty soon. The photography was just gorgeous and I am an incurable shutterbug.
I also tend to agree with you on DIR. I am NOT a DIR diver and probably never will be as I am a little too individualistic. I LIKE my set-up a little different than everybody else's and if I am safe for what I am doing, that is what matters.
That having been said, many good ideas can be taken from the DIR/GUE program. I support that. I may take the IANTD Technical Diver course and Tri-Mix so that I can learn to see some of the Great Lakes wrecks that are below 130 ft. Many of the ideas on my rig, although I take my training through IANTD are very similar to the DIR/GUE set-ups. You have said that about as well as anyone that I have read.
Now, BACK TO ENJOYABLE CARIBBEAN STORIES AND LET'S QUIT HI-JACKING THIS THREAD.
I am glad that you had a great trip. I hope to have the opportunity to dive salt water again pretty soon. The photography was just gorgeous and I am an incurable shutterbug.
I also tend to agree with you on DIR. I am NOT a DIR diver and probably never will be as I am a little too individualistic. I LIKE my set-up a little different than everybody else's and if I am safe for what I am doing, that is what matters.
That having been said, many good ideas can be taken from the DIR/GUE program. I support that. I may take the IANTD Technical Diver course and Tri-Mix so that I can learn to see some of the Great Lakes wrecks that are below 130 ft. Many of the ideas on my rig, although I take my training through IANTD are very similar to the DIR/GUE set-ups. You have said that about as well as anyone that I have read.
Now, BACK TO ENJOYABLE CARIBBEAN STORIES AND LET'S QUIT HI-JACKING THIS THREAD.
I have never had mask kicked off. I have been run into by other divers, but it is forgiven as normally it has to do with poor "situational awareness" moreso than lack of buoyancy control in the cases that I am involved it.
The ONLY way to teach better situational awareness is by DIVING. That can't happen in class alone. Mask clearing was my big flaw at first. I had problems with it when I had to do it repeatedly do to the mask not being completely under my hood. That can be a "problem that shouldn't be."
I definitely agree on the saltwater point. It is just most of my open water diving is done in the Great Lakes. Different perspectives make for interesting conversation, do they not?
OP
Popeye
Contributor
He has ...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
agstreet once bubbled...
Popeye, meet MHK. MHK, Popeye. You two guys have a nice conversation, OK ;-)
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... and we have a pic to prove it. 8)
JohnF [/QUOTE]
Alriiiiiight, Veeeeeeeeery funny.
Now that I know who you guys are.
Both these guys are friends of mine from Rec.scuba, and agstreet already knows I know MHK.
I must still be off-gassing from the trip...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
agstreet once bubbled...
Popeye, meet MHK. MHK, Popeye. You two guys have a nice conversation, OK ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... and we have a pic to prove it. 8)
JohnF [/QUOTE]
Alriiiiiight, Veeeeeeeeery funny.
Now that I know who you guys are.
Both these guys are friends of mine from Rec.scuba, and agstreet already knows I know MHK.
I must still be off-gassing from the trip...
While this may be a fine way for you to dive...a majority of the people I watch dive their computers have no idea how they work, or why they're conservative. I have been opposed to teaching computer diving to BOW students from day 1...just MHO
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