Thinking about getting started

[BMW]

Title says it all - hope this forum does not mind a real "newbie" question ...

I started looking for a video camera supported by a major housing manufacturer. There are many models available. Can anyone recommend a video camera that:

1. is idiot-proof, has auto-everything (focus, white-balance, etc)
2. records HD content to a flash card (no moving parts)
3. records in a standard MPEG or MPEG file format
4. can connect to a computer via USB and to the computer "looks like" any old USB flash drive (e.g. no proprietary software requirement)

Thanks!

 

[diversteve]

I don't think there is one in the consumer video space. I'm not even sure there's a HDD camera that doesn't use AVCHD compression. I only know Sony well and have slight knowledge of Canon/Panasonic consumer models.

All the current Sony's record in AVCHD as you've may have noticed. As does the Canon HF10 and the Panasonic HDC-SD9. And Sony uses their proprietary Memory Stick Pro Duo media.

I think JVC does one but they have a non-standard proprietary mpeg2-TS format. Not sure what editors support that - at least without using an intermediate codec during the import process. If the camera's sell well, this becomes less of an issue as the software mfr's will support it then. I saw that happen a couple years ago with AVCHD.

What sort of budget do you have in mind? That's probably the limiting factor. Do you want to shoot in HDV/AVCHD? or "real" HD?

There's the Sony XDCAM EX (PMW-EX1) Shoots in HD to SxS Pro cards. Around $6-7K for the base camera,

Gates is doing a housing for it. I have no idea what that will cost though...housings for that level of camera will likely run around $8-10K or more depending on port selection and options (ex. an HD monitor is $2300 more - a good port double that)

I don't know if Equinox is/will do a housing for it. It might fit their Pro10 custom model which is quite a bit less - around $3K or so.

If money's no object, there's RED One. Or the soon to be released Scarlet. Gates does a housing for the RED now. You're talking minimum $25K for the camera, I have no idea on the housing.

In the consumer video space, Firewire (Sony calls it i.link) is the preferred transfer method over USB 2.0. It's slightly faster and not susceptible to transfer interruptions that can occur when another device in your system polls the USB bus. Mac's have it built-in as do most newer PC motherboards.

Although since you're looking for a solid-state media option, most will be removable so you'll just need a compatible media reader for your footage to show up as a recognized drive on your desktop. I have Memory Duo Pro cardbus adapter that I use to transfer stills from my camera and that's how it works.

 

[C8X]

Just did the same rounds of research and settled on the HF100. If you have friends across the border, check the prices on Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more! (us delivery only) where you can get the camera for $645 and 16gb class4 sandisk sd cards for about 100 each. The HF10 just has an extra 16mb onboard and it's black. I don't trust flash mem enough to want any built in, why not save the $180. Plus, if all your data is on memory cards, pop them into a card slot which is found on most pcs or monitors these days. Probably faster transfer then off the camera itself and no cables or battery consumption at all.

HF11 is on the way, it will be similar but with 32gb onboard and it will have an additional image quality option which uses the max bitrate of AVCHD format, 24Mbit, which will be something to see because the HF100/HF10 looks pretty nice to me at 17Mbit.

As for housings, it really looks like everyone caters to Sony first and foremost, so if you are looking for options, Canon might not be the way to go.

 

[BMW]

What sort of budget do you have in mind? That's probably the limiting factor. Do you want to shoot in HDV/AVCHD? or "real" HD?

Wow - thanks for the great reply. I was expecting under $2.5K for the camera and $1K for the housing.

Not sure about the recording format. I guess I don't really care as long as I can get the file to my computer without too much pain and manipulate it with software that runs cross-platform (Win/Mac/Lin) and I can move the software from one of my computers to another without too much hassle.

 

[BMW]

Just did the same rounds of research and settled on the HF100...

That looks pretty ideal for a beginner like me, and ikelite has a $800 housing for it. Very cool!

Thanks

 

[diversteve]

Wow - thanks for the great reply. I was expecting under $2.5K for the camera and $1K for the housing.

housings are always more than the camera...lol

Not sure about the recording format. I guess I don't really care as long as I can get the file to my computer without too much pain and manipulate it with software that runs cross-platform (Win/Mac/Lin) and I can move the software from one of my computers to another without too much hassle.

The preferred editor on a Mac is Final Cut Pro. Options in Win is include Vegas, Adobe Premiere or Avid's (Pinnacle's) Liquid. The only Mac/Win cross-platform sw that I know of is Adobe Premiere.

There's also consumer versions of all three, Vegas Movie Studio Platinum for Win, iMovie for Mac and Adobe Premiere Elements for Win - not sure if there's a Mac version. The consumer version of Liquid is Pinnacle's Studio line - Win only afaik.

All of the Vegas and Adobe Premiere versions are available in trial versions on their websites. There's even the new Premiere Express where you do all your editing online. I don't recommend Pinnacle Studio as I had continual crashing problems with a previous version.

I'm not totally familiar with AVCHD editing since I shoot tape but one issue that I've seen mentioned is that the editing software you select needs to support AVCHD on your mfr's camera. For example Sony's Vegas just recently added native support for Panasonic AVCHD cameras. So afaik, it supports Sony and Panasonic direct import only. It should work with any camera but you'll have to use an intermediate sw codec to convert the footage first - which typically means a slight amount of quality loss. Something to check.

Of course I saw the reviews on the HF-100/11 ten minutes after I last posted. Either looks like a good option. The HF-11 has a much higher output quality - equivalent to HDV tape. (24MPS)

 

[smw]

Title says it all - hope this forum does not mind a real "newbie" question ...

I started looking for a video camera supported by a major housing manufacturer. There are many models available. Can anyone recommend a video camera that:

1. is idiot-proof, has auto-everything (focus, white-balance, etc)
2. records HD content to a flash card (no moving parts)
3. records in a standard MPEG or MPEG file format
4. can connect to a computer via USB and to the computer "looks like" any old USB flash drive (e.g. no proprietary software requirement)

Thanks!

I have a Sony HDV handcam and Seatool HC3 housing and Vegas 8.0 for editing. The housing has an amber filter which helps the white balance. You can also adjust your white balance once you get the video in the editing program. It's not idiot-proof as you have to remember to flip the screen over before putting in the camera. It has a mirror that flips out on the side so that you can see what you are filming. I usually use the view-finder any way - but most people like the mirror better. The sony has a cool feature that when you plug it into the housing, the stuff in the LCD is is backwards so the when you view it in the mirror - it looks right.

You probably won't be able to get video from your camera to the computer with a USB. You'll either have to pull the flash memory and get a card reader or consider Investing in a quality video card so that you can download with firewire. The camera I have records to tape, but I saw a Sony at Frye's has one that records to flash memory. Like sjspeck said... once you get capturing the video into the editing program figured out - the rest is cake.

When you render the video you'll have the choice of what format that you want for your output. I have a screamer computer - so rendering doesn't take long (about 1:1 meaning that if the vid is 3 minutes long it take 3 minutes to render) but if you are using a fairly standard computer - expect about 4:1 rending time. You'll spend copious amounts of time editing the stuff - but that is the fun part. Make sure you have a good back up. Stressing your computer with video editing sometimes causes crashes. (Being a computer teacher - I have to say that - LOL) I'm speaking from the Wintel prospective. Note to the Mac users... I realize that Macs are better at graphics, but I use my computer for more than just graphics! So I have to expect that there will be some issues using a Windows-based system. Even though you think right now that you'll be happy with viewing your video without editing - you'll probably change your mind quickly. Things like leaving the camera on by accident and the gigantic size of unedited files is cumbersome.

The other choice you have is to go with a still camera that does video. I'd love to have my Olympus back - why did I sell it??? It took great little videos onto cards. I'd just change out the card between each dive. Once I got hooked on the video though - I had to go all-out and get the HD camera.

I'll send you a private message with the login for my videos. You'll be able to see the difference between video with a camera and video with a video camera. The real bonus is when you render in HD and play it on your big screen TV. The only problem with that is that you immediately book another dive trip.

SMW

 

[BMW]

I have a Sony HDV handcam and Seatool HC3 housing and Vegas 8.0 for editing. The housing has an amber filter which helps the white balance. You can also adjust your white balance once you get the video in the editing program. It's not idiot-proof as you have to remember to flip the screen over before putting in the camera. It has a mirror that flips out on the side so that you can see what you are filming. I usually use the view-finder any way - but most people like the mirror better. The sony has a cool feature that when you plug it into the housing, the stuff in the LCD is is backwards so the when you view it in the mirror - it looks right.

You probably won't be able to get video from your camera to the computer with a USB. You'll either have to pull the flash memory and get a card reader or consider Investing in a quality video card so that you can download with firewire. The camera I have records to tape, but I saw a Sony at Frye's has one that records to flash memory. Like sjspeck said... once you get capturing the video into the editing program figured out - the rest is cake.

When you render the video you'll have the choice of what format that you want for your output. I have a screamer computer - so rendering doesn't take long (about 1:1 meaning that if the vid is 3 minutes long it take 3 minutes to render) but if you are using a fairly standard computer - expect about 4:1 rending time. You'll spend copious amounts of time editing the stuff - but that is the fun part. Make sure you have a good back up. Stressing your computer with video editing sometimes causes crashes. (Being a computer teacher - I have to say that - LOL) I'm speaking from the Wintel prospective. Note to the Mac users... I realize that Macs are better at graphics, but I use my computer for more than just graphics! So I have to expect that there will be some issues using a Windows-based system. Even though you think right now that you'll be happy with viewing your video without editing - you'll probably change your mind quickly. Things like leaving the camera on by accident and the gigantic size of unedited files is cumbersome.

The other choice you have is to go with a still camera that does video. I'd love to have my Olympus back - why did I sell it??? It took great little videos onto cards. I'd just change out the card between each dive. Once I got hooked on the video though - I had to go all-out and get the HD camera.

I'll send you a private message with the login for my videos. You'll be able to see the difference between video with a camera and video with a video camera. The real bonus is when you render in HD and play it on your big screen TV. The only problem with that is that you immediately book another dive trip.

SMW

Wow!!! Those are smokin hot vids - you found a seahorse and made me so jealous. Thanks for sharing! I liked Santana the best...

Now I want to go somewhere exotic

Thanks for the advice. If I can take some videos that are even a fraction as good as yours I will be a happy camper.

 

[smw]

Thanks for the kudos! Gotta give props to the DM (Mel) at Cocoview for the seahorses. The guy is awesome.

Hopefully I'll have some hammerhead vids up when we get back from Cabo. We go on Thursday. (Hope I didn't just jinx it!)

You should be able get into my gear for about $3000 - $3500. You could probably find a used Sony HDV. The housing is expensive, but I really like how you know it is locked and sealed. Plus it is tiny. There are a number of different ways to put light on the gear. We put a light canon fixed right on the top. It doesn’t draw off the balance. Awesome for night dives! I use Sony Vegas Pro 8.0 for the software. Can't remember what type of video capture card I have - I've had it forever.

Good luck! Send me a link when you post some vids!

SMW

 

[DaFireMedic]

I'm not even sure there's a HDD camera that doesn't use AVCHD compression

JVC still has one that uses HDV, but it doesn't compare in quality to the current AVCHD offerings.