Thoughts on the PADI Scuba Diver Cert

[victoriawtx]

where I got certified. My instructor didn't recommend it, in her opinion, however there was a great demand for it among the tourists. It seems like a lot of people don't want to take the time, study, and work hard. They just want to go on vacation, have someone else take care of them, and look at pretty fish.

I feel ambivalent about this card. I can see the benefits for the general population, but my instructor indicated that it is harder on the divemasters. They have to watch these people intensely, to ensure their safety, and she said that they've had some close calls.

Is this another PADI gimmick for money? I was certified through PADI, and my instructor was great, very demanding and insisted on safety being top priority. I didn't learn about the pitfalls of certifying agencies until I got onto the board.

 

[JDostal]

Being a Divemaster with a group of those people would be horrible!! They group I dive with is pretty independent (don't you dare ever offer to help them get in their gear) and are really good divers.

What a difference it would...monitoring their air, their depth, their time....Yikes!!!

 

[Arnaud]

I'm not sure why the issue is being raised now. This course has been available for at least 2 years, and probably more.

Crash courses are a bad idea but this is slightly different.

All things being relative , and if you go beyond the catchy marketing name, this "certification" precisely means that the individual is not certified. It's actually a big red flag that the diver is not really a diver and needs at all time supervision.

Between a guy who's been "fully" certified in 2 days and another one who has a card that says "I've been in the water a few times, but I can't dive on my own", who is the more dangerous?

I don't think the problem is really with this program. The problem lies with the instructor or DM who would take the "diver" deeper than 40ft or let him buddy up with someone who's not qualified for supervision. In SoCal, most boats won't let you on board without an AOW. If a dive op lets you dive without an OW, they should stick to the rules. If they don't, they should face potential liability.

Another reason for this program is when a student fails the OW. Some instructors will not fail anyone, some others will deliver the Scubadiver cert. instead.

 

[Conor]

Isn't the question what is 'fully' certified ? Does certification mean that they have proved they are capable of doing the level of diving the course is intended to achieve, i.e. 12M supervised ?

If someone is not interested in diving beyond the holiday experience, how much of the training will he recall ? How much effort is he going to put in ? how much of the instructors time is he going to waste ? What will the affect be on the other students who want to dive more substantially ?

I guess in order to really understand the implications we should be discussing what is missing from their experience in the 2 pool dives, 2 ocean dives, and theory they didn't do.

Sorry, been a long afternoon.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

but always in a circumstance where there as an interruption of training for medical or other reasons.

A student who can't equalize on OW dive 3 or 4 can often return to try that dive again a few days later. But sometimes the check-out dives are done on referral while the student is on vacation. Issuing a Scuba Diver card does acknowledge what training was completed and (unlike a referral) permits more than one year to complete training and earn an OW card.

My concern is that the limitations of training may not be observed. I would be highly surprised if any dive shop would refuse an air fill to someone with a PADI Scuba Diver card even though that person must dive with a PADI pro. And certainly that Scuba Diver would have no problem buying all the latest gear, so long as they have the right card - VISA, MasterCard, or Amex.

It can be difficult to understand the semantics of all of the various agencies' certification levels. How is a NAUI Scuba Diver certification different than a NAUI Open Water I? How is a PADI Scuba Diver different than a PADI Basic Scuba Diver? Unfortuantely, the restrictions of training are not usually listed on a c-card.

 

[Arnaud]

Drew Sailbum once bubbled...
It can be difficult to understand the semantics of all of the various agencies' certification levels. How is a NAUI Scuba Diver certification different than a NAUI Open Water I? How is a PADI Scuba Diver different than a PADI Basic Scuba Diver? Unfortuantely, the restrictions of training are not usually listed on a c-card.

That's a very good point. Maybe, there ought to be some standards that all the agencies should agree on. I believe there is something similar in terms of first aid training among the various first aid agencies.

You're probably going to hate this, and I hate it too, but in France, the government sets the standards. If you thought Padi was late in introducing Nitrox courses, it took 10 more years for the French government to regulate it. Not a good idea.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Walter once bubbled...
I would not compromise my principles. I'd quit teaching first.

Which principles? Why would you need to quit teaching in order to not compromise them?

 

[DeepSeaDan]

Seems to me what is at question here is the ability of a Supervisor ( even a very competent one ) to deal with the problems associated with ?half-trained? students.

What is particularly worrisome is the lack of established ratios. It stands to reason the odds of such students having problems is significantly increased...how is the Supervisor to contend with a situation where more than one student is having difficulty? In my opinion, taking a pod of these types under for a look at the fishies is asking for major trouble & I wouldn't personally entertain the thought.

It is my hope that P.A.D.I. Instructors the caliber of Mike F., Walter, Mike D. & others will take issue with P.A.D.I. regarding such courses & lobby them to drop what amounts to a "cash-grab" program. Failing that, empower their contempt by walking away & teaching for another agency more in line with their personal standards & philosophy.

Regards,
D.S.D.

 

[detroit diver]

Arnaud once bubbled...
......

Between a guy who's been "fully" certified in 2 days and another one who has a card that says "I've been in the water a few times, but I can't dive on my own", who is the more dangerous?
....

I think you raise an excellent point here. Which diver should you be more concerned about? On one hand, the crash course "fully certified" diver probably hasnt absorbed much of the huge amounts of information shoveled to them in 2 or 3 days.

On the other hand, the quality of the DM is now the critcal factor in the "half-ass*d" carded diver. Haven't we all seen DM take groups down to 100 feet when they only have a basic card? Now you've got the same DM taking a partially trained diver possibly to these depths. How many are allowed in the group? New divers sucking air like a vacuum with the feeling that someone other than themselves is under control? Scary.

 

[Arnaud]

detroit diver once bubbled...

On the other hand, the quality of the DM is now the critical factor in the "half-ass*d" carded diver. Haven't we all seen DM take groups down to 100 feet when they only have a basic card? Now you've got the same DM taking a partially trained diver possibly to these depths. How many are allowed in the group? New divers sucking air like a vacuum with the feeling that someone other than themselves is under control? Scary.

Yes, it's scary. The only way this works is if the DM is the buddy. But again, I was in Aruba a few months ago. One day, 7 divers show up, all ow certified. the "cruise people". One DM. It was really scary. Not a single one of them had any idea about buoyancy, proper fin kicking or anything else related to diving.

I spent the whole dive assisting other divers and I'm not a DM. Had something happen, there was no way that the DM could have handled the situation on his own.