scubadobadoo:
That's why I didn't suggest it in this case.
Perhaps. That is for each individual to decide. It is my feeling however that if they aren't mature enough to be equally responsible then they aren't a buddy, they are a student, and Dad in this case isn't an instructor. If Dad is more in control than his two diving children, then they CAN'T dive with some fourth person they barely know unless the kids dive as buddies and they aren't ready to do that if Dad has to watch them and be in control. Another option is for each adult to pair with a child but then that is just baby sitting again assuming the kids need Dad to watch them. SO, the last option is to rent a DM or instructor to watch the kids. So why did they get certified in this first place if they need to be watched?
My question exactly
Basically, a diver is ready to be equally responsible to dive or they aren't. That's how I see it. If I come along and join him and the kids, I am diving SOLO IMHO. He's too worried about his kids and his kids are too worried about themselves. Where does that leave me?
I agree except that I'm not going to dive with abuddy if I feel that I'm, in effect, solo.
As you say, it is up to each individual but as an individual instructor, I stopped certifying young children especially if I didn't feel the parent was a pretty accomplished diver. They can do what they want but so can I.
I watched a mom and dad get into some pretty serious trouble and leave Jr. on his own to fend for himself. I'm glad that it wasn't me who sold them on the idea of getting into that mess in the first place.
I had a guy comming into the shop for a while who went with us on some shallow Great Lakes wreck dives. He had lots of experience and was buddied with my wife. At the horrifying depth of about 35 ft he abandoned her...really fast like...because he noticed that he was down to about 750 psi is an AL 80. Later he came into the shop wanting me to certify his 11 year old daughter. I declined and tried to explain why. Well, of course he went and got her certified someplace else. I later ran into him and he went on and on about how well she did and how I missed out by refusing to teach the class. I finally had to explain in a much clearer way that I never thought that the child would have a problem. The problem was that she was going to be diving with him and I thought he was just plain dangerous in the water and that my DM, cave diving, trimix divin wife isn't even willing to get back in the water with him.
There are risks associated with diving. Adults can be held responsible for their own evaluation of those risks. they can choose a buddy. Kids, while eager don't really have the same choices and will be unlikely to identify a parent as a dangerous dive buddy even if they are exactly that.
I am not saying Dad shouldn't be Dad and supervise, but he should try to instill a sense of control and responsiblity in his kids IMHO.
I would LOVE to dive with my kids when they are old enough. Old enouh to me, isn't a number. Again, this is for each individual to decide.
Diving with your kids is great. I certified both my kids. My daughter never really liked it but my son is an avid diver. We've had hundreds and hundreds of absolutely fantastic dives together and I wouldn't have missed it for the world. My son was 14 or so when I certified him but I wasn't a new diver too. In fact when I say that I certified him, I mean that I certified him. I was his instructor.
Everyone can make up their own mind and that's as it should be. My own opinion after having dived with lots of new divers including kids is that a parent who is a new diver going diving with their child who is a new diver is off-the-scale insanity.
