To those considering an OW class...

[Clancy]

This is a most interesting thread. As A new diver, I simply went with the program. I live on Kwajalein, in the Marshall Islands, and diving is probably the number one sport here...just don't tell the fisherman. I asked around and tried the get the best instructor on the island. Ten hours of class, and ten in the pool before we hit the ocean. Did I feel fully comfortable when the class was over? No...not at all, but I have several very experienced friends with which to dive. I dive three to five times a week. At first I had some dubvious equipment that I've replaced, I take the gentle instruction, and compliments from my dive buddies to heart, and I'm learning fast. This weekend I finish my advanced class, because here I'm required to complete it within six months of the OW class, or no more diving. Really I'd rather wait, but the class was open, and my work schedule complied.
If I wasn't diving weekly I think what little skill I've obtained would quickly fade, and diving on vacations would become tedious, and I might become a statistic (by quitting). BUT, that's not the case. I email friends daily, and haul tanks on a trailer behind my bicycle, to get a dive in after work. Am I comfortable now? Much more so, but I know I have a long way to go , and experience is a good teacher.
I'm sure I'm luckier than most by living in a dive culture, in a place I can scare up a dive almost any day I care to, and sometimes I have to refuse an offer to attend to other things.

 

[Gombessa]

"Were newly certed OW divers 20 years ago REALLY more safe/competent/qualified...or is that just nostalgia on the part of some of the senior members of our community?"

Yes, they really were (and are), on average they received about twice the instruction that they do today. You see it’s not nostalgia, a fair number of us are still running basically the same programs, modified only to adapt to the changes in equipment. We, if anything, are training better divers today than we did.

I guess my response to this is whether diving itself has changed from when it was back in the old days. Did the same number or proportion of people get into it just to enjoy a few dives on vacation, or were they more serious about engaging in a long-term hobby?

There's also some agreement that modern equipment is better at keeping newbie divers alive (alt. second stages, pony tanks, etc.). The same might be said for diving locations/operations (numerous operations with guides/DMs, established, safe dive locations without major hazards).

In essence, my belief is that diving has become much "safer" and more accessible than in the days of Cousteau (or perhaps even more recently), and as such certification programs have adapted to suit the bell curve--much more recreation, much less exploration.

The additional training from before just no longer suits the current majority of divers, so it moves to a narrower "advanced" category; the relatively fewer, now "specialized or hardcore" divers who don't care for meager 30ft depths and are more adventurous or technical still get the advanced training they used to, except now it's in a more specialized program.

I feel the same way you do regarding computers and electronics. Back in the day, you couldn't even start a program without knowing your way around a command line, or being able to crack open the case and getting your hands dirty (more like cut). Now, you buy a system from Walmart, follow a color fold-out to plug in 3 cables, and you're up and online, for better or worse. Sure, the old-timers learned in a trial by fire and during the same point in their education could have run circles around what a lot of people today "know" about PCs, but computers got better, more useful, and more popular, and today's level knowledge is adequate to suit the needs of most of today's users (clicking a mouse and playing a game, rather than writing and compiling your own).

 

[Bob Vincent]

I agree with mostly everything you said. Dive shops do feel the need to do these 2 day weekend get me done now classes. They figure if they don't offer it students will go elsewere. I never did a weekend class are wanted to. My favorite of course was 2 days a week for 3 weeks. I might be wrong here but the students in the longer classes seemed like the training sunk in. I think this is true by comparing test scores and open water performace. But the people that want that type of class really see nothing wrong with it. There can't be they wouldn't do it. There of course is exceptions but I still dont like hurry up get me done courses. If the people could stand back and watch divers from a 6 class/pool sessions class to a 2 day class/pool session they'd pick the 6 class. Well thats I think. Go figure!

 

[Tigerman]

I agree with mostly everything you said. Dive shops do feel the need to do these 2 day weekend get me done now classes. They figure if they don't offer it students will go elsewere. I never did a weekend class are wanted to. My favorite of course was 2 days a week for 3 weeks. I might be wrong here but the students in the longer classes seemed like the training sunk in. I think this is true by comparing test scores and open water performace. But the people that want that type of class really see nothing wrong with it. There can't be they wouldn't do it. There of course is exceptions but I still dont like hurry up get me done courses. If the people could stand back and watch divers from a 6 class/pool sessions class to a 2 day class/pool session they'd pick the 6 class. Well thats I think. Go figure!

Actually, in a 3-week course, your brain wil have forgotten over 50% of the first week by the time you get to week 3, just as in a one-week course youll forget over 50% of what you learned 2 weeks after the written exam.. Only way to make the information stick is to use it again and again and again..
Test scores are worthless for anything but seeing if you paid attention or sat your *** down and read book the day before the test.. Most of what you dont actively use will wander off to the long-term vault without you remembering it untill you read it and go "oh, thats how it was!"..

 

[efficientwanderer]

As a newly certified diver, I wanted to offer my two cents on this thread that I wish I had found before I got certified. I did the two weekends course, two pretty long days Saturday and Sunday with pool and classroom, four dives at a quarry with a different dive shop because of scheduling issues. At the end of this course, I was uncomfortable clearing my mask, told the certifying instructor this, and he told me that I wouldn't ever have to do it again. That seemed a bit ridiculous; why were we learning this skill if it wasn't going to be useful at some point in our dive career? And clearly from a quick read of threads on the board, this is a necessary skill.

For the OW dives, I was very comfortable in the water, not bothered by very poor visibility or the depth. There was one instructor and one DM for 7 students, so since I wasn't freaked out by the experience the instructor had me do my skills and spent most of his time with the students who were not as comfortable in the water.

At the end of these dives, I was comfortable at depth, but still didn't like mask clearing. I'm sure my finning is bad because I was a swimmer for a long time, and it's hard to break those habits! The worst though was buoyancy, not only did I have floaty feet and couldn't really maintain neutral buoyancy for any length of time, but the combination of a weight belt with my weight on my back, a steel tank that was usually very full of air since it never got below 1500 psi on any dive, a BCD jacket and, uh, natural positive buoyancy in the front (I'm a chick), meant that kneeling or trying to hover put me on my back. I don't know if this can be fixed with proper technique or if it's something that I should get gear more suited to me first.

Does this mean that I've learned enough to be an OW certified diver? In my opinion, no. I don't think that I should be going out with my buddy yet. The class failed me because until I can hang there without have to kick to stay off my back, I should be working on those skills. I don't think it would take terribly long, probably two days could have me on the right track, but it should have been done before giving me a c-card.

Now I'm searching for an instructor to help me with the rest, especially what I can't practice in the pool myself. At least I now know the questions to ask rather than just looking for someone that will fit in my schedule. And yeah, if anyone can recommend an instructor in Australia (particularly on the South Coast of NSW or maybe Sydney), please PM me.

 

[Tigerman]

efficientwanderer: sounds to me like you realize pretty well what you need to work on?
Find someone to come with you to a pool or a calm, shallow little lake or similar and work on it?
Having a c-card doesnt mean that youre proficient, just as having a drivers license dont mean youre a Formula 1 driver..

However.. Hovering is one of the skills required to pass open water, is it not?
Also, the instructor saying you wont have to clear your mask again dont sound good in my ears..

 

[RS]

You know, I had a tough time in my (1st) OW. I swear I spent half the time literally upside down. Now I realize I had bouyant fins and my attempts to hover would have me feet up. My instructor didn't know what the prob was, she kept asking me why I liked to be feet up!

 

[Thalassamania]

Having a c-card doesnt mean that youre proficient, just as having a drivers license dont mean youre a Formula 1 driver..

Having a "C" card means that the instructor certifies that you have MASTERED mask clearing at least. I'd complain to his shop and his agency.

 

[Gombessa]

Having a "C" card means that the instructoir certifies that you have MASTERED mask clearing at least. I'd complain to his shop and his agency.

The full mask removal/replacement freaked me out so much during my first CW dive that I had to come up and talk myself through the procedure first ("Note to self, don't need a mask to breathe"). Now, it's almost mundane, but I practice it whenever I jump into the water (even when snorkeling).

My instructor said the other major hang-up in cert classes is regulator recovery (apparently some people have a death grip on it), but to me, holding your breath underwater is a heck of a lot more natural than breathing

 

[socal619]

My instructor said the other major hang-up in cert classes is regulator recovery (apparently some people have a death grip on it), but to me, holding your breath underwater is a heck of a lot more natural than breathing

Don't you remember, you're not supposed to hold your breath underwater. Blow bubbles