Training prereq.

[texdiveguy]

Many of the Instructors will teach Adv. nitrox & Deco as part of the Apprentice/ Full Cave class if you don't already have it. Instead of posting this on several boards, why don't you come down here and get cave certified and then see if you still feel the same way. If you are already cave certified why don't you rewrite the standards to what you think they should be and send them to the NACD board for approval. Either way do something about it or take NAUI's cave program and quit worrying about the NACD's pre-reqs.

It was a simply question......

So your having a crappy day???

I simply asked a simple question and have till yours, here AND on Deco Stop received adult replies---not snipping ..... I am not 'worried' about NACD's prergs. per say as a precursor to taking full cave (of which I am not doing--simply interested in the topic)....I believe though I meet the NACD's minimum standards or any other agency for a cave program if it were my wishes to get a full cave plastic card.

So my advise to you is get off your high horse and add something 'constructive'....or lurk somewhere else other than my thread.

Thanks to everyone else for your comments and thoughts as they are informative.

 

[GDI]

It was a simply question......

So your having a crappy day???

I simply asked a simple question and have till yours, here AND on Deco Stop received adult replies---not snipping ..... I am not 'worried' about NACD's prergs. per say as a precursor to taking full cave (of which I am not doing--simply interested in the topic)....I believe though I meet the NACD's minimum standards or any other agency for a cave program if it were my wishes to get a full cave plastic card.

So my advise to you is get off your high horse and add something 'constructive'....or lurk somewhere else other than my thread.

Thanks to everyone else for your comments and thoughts as they are informative.

As per contenders comments I do teach Adv Nitrox/Deco in between Intro and Full cave. If the student does not have nitrox at the cavern or intro level I will recommend it, HIGHLY before we get into the cavern training.
We can always add a course.

I believe though I meet the NACD's minimum standards or any other agency for a cave program if it were my wishes to get a full cave plastic card

Now as per this above comment from you. It is OK to have a interest in this ro any topic and I see your question as just that - interest> However while a diver may have the pre-reqs this does not mean a diver will have the required skills to get through the course and get that plastic card. Any good cave instructor will tell it isn't about the card it's about the training, pass or fail you will come away from it a better diver with or without the card. the chances of having only 19 life times dives in your log book really limits the possiblility of getting past cavern let alone to full cave. In this respect cavern then becomes a fundamentals class if nothing else.

A side point from all of this is that a diver doing a cave(rn) diver is not always limited by bottom time. More often then not they are limited by their SAC rate, the amount of cubic footage they breath especially at a total 19 life time dives

 

[contender]

It was a simply question......

So your having a crappy day???

I simply asked a simple question and have till yours, here AND on Deco Stop received adult replies---not snipping ..... I am not 'worried' about NACD's prergs. per say as a precursor to taking full cave (of which I am not doing--simply interested in the topic)....I believe though I meet the NACD's minimum standards or any other agency for a cave program if it were my wishes to get a full cave plastic card.

So my advise to you is get off your high horse and add something 'constructive'....or lurk somewhere else other than my thread.

Thanks to everyone else for your comments and thoughts as they are informative.

Well if your intentions were to ask a question maybe you should have started out with "Why is this the minimum pre-reqs" not "Am I reading this correctly". My day was not crappy at all, in fact I spent most of it diving. No high horse here either, I was simply making a suggestion, if you don't like it do something about it. Maybe I sounded a little harsh, but that was not really my intentions either. However, I would be interested in hearing an explanation as to why you care if you don't want to take cave training.

 

[texdiveguy]

Well if your intentions were to ask a question maybe you should have started out with "Why is this the minimum pre-reqs" not "Am I reading this correctly". My day was not crappy at all, in fact I spent most of it diving. No high horse here either, I was simply making a suggestion, if you don't like it do something about it. Maybe I sounded a little harsh, but that was not really my intentions either. However, I would be interested in hearing an explanation as to why you care if you don't want to take cave training.

Well I am glad to hear your day was good....most any day spent diving is generally well spent.....I spent most of this day doing yard work and just got in from drag racing at a local track, tomm. diving!!

Just because I don't have an interest to get into full cave diving does not mean I don't have an interest in learning about its required training and such. We all have interest in certain things we just don't persue fully....I am sure you have a few.

Being an active diver of a few years and having dove 'way-back' I enjoy learning new things.....sorry you miss understood the premise of my original post.

If someone asking me about being a DM or the specifics of training to that level I do my best to explain the requirements.......if someone asks questions and shows interest in advanced mix gas diving I am always happy to share my experiences and answer their questions.

I fully understand what it takes to go from entry levels of scuba certf. to advanced technical programs having been down this road myself....so when I read this agencies published standards I just thought it a bit lean in the 'required' prior course work ....... and I agree with the notion that its a good thing instructors on these programs strongly suggest to their students to supplement their core cave courses with others that directly relate to serious cave diving...though not a requirement for certf. to full cave with this agency.

 

[willardj]

This is not much of a problem anyway. Anybody with just OW will probley not have the Trim, Boyance skill or experience to pass the class to start with. Inless they have been diving for a while and at this level the Instr. will not pass the student anyway if they are not ready. If you don't have Nitrox your dive will be so short that it is almost a waist of time or you will have an Deco obligation to dill with.

 

[TSandM]

I think it's actually a good thing to think and talk about, where deco training comes in for cave divers. It's important to me. I really like cave diving, and it was clear in Florida that on thirds, you're rapidly going to get to where you need to do some mandatory deco, because the caves run so deep so fast. But the issues of doing deco in a cave are different from the issues of doing deco in open water. Resting under the log at Ginnie is a far cry from trying to stay oriented and stable with no visual reference in cold, murky green water in Puget Sound.

I really don't believe that I need to go through a course which puts me through failures in midwater, in order to breathe some O2 in the Eye. This is one of the things I like about the GUE Cave sequence -- They just incorporate the deco training you need as a cave diver into the Cave 2 class.

The theoretical material and the decision making are the same, but the practical skills are a little different.

 

[jimdiverman]

Hey guys,

I just completed full cave last week, but I have been working up to this since I started doing technical diving back in August. In August, I took IANTD Advanced Nitrox and Deep Diving. That was very helpful in cave training because we DID do deco on some dives, especially on long penetration dives. In September, I also took the test for PSAI Advanced Nitrox certification with the same instructor. PSAI Adv Nitrox gets you certifiied to 150 feet and up to 100% O2 on deco. Again, when I did cave training, I always carried a 40CF stage bottle with 100% O2 for shallow deco. I never had more than 15 minutes of deco with my profile on any dive. I took twin sets and cavern in October and November. I didn't complete all the dives in October when I started, so I needed to go back in November. I was doing this in Luraville. I had some equipment issues, and it took longer than I had hoped, but I didn't quit. On February 29th I went back to Luraville as planned to go all the way through full cave with my PSAI instructor. As you are all probably well aware, all the caves in the Peacock system are blown out, so we dove at Manatee first, then Ginnie, and then Jackson Blue, and over the 9 days I was there, we did 1-1/2 days of instruction and testing, and 7 days of diving, with a total of 16 dives and over 16 hours of bottom time including one 2 hour and 44 minute dive. I was carrying twin HP130s, so I really got myself in shape to do this and handle the time pressure of diving every day as well as the wear and tear on my body. I took the exam last Sunday, and I can tell you, they don't just hand out full cave certifications. The test took me 3 hours to complete, but I got an A on it. I feel like my instructor really prepared me well both in the water and in the educational aspects of the preparation. Also, I have been working with this instructor in all of these other courses building up to this. Some people say that you should not take cavern to full cave all at once, that you should work up to it. I believe I did it the right way. I know people that are just intro that are making the same dives I will be making now, but that's another subject.

Having the other technical courses in Advanced Nitrox and deep certainly enhanced my understanding and ability in full cave, though as others have stated, it is not a requirement by the agency to have, but is recommended by the instructors.

I am very much looking forward to Peacock clearing up now so I can go back to Luraville and dive in the systems that I keep hearing about with such fondness.

 

[TSandM]

It just occurred to me . . . As I was planning my carefully charted route to cave training, I wrote to a number of cave instructors and cave divers whose voices here on SB had impressed me, and I asked them, "What preparation do you recommend before presenting for cave training?" The one class EVERYBODY recommended taking was Adv Nitrox/Deco Procedures. (Of course, I didn't do it . . . but that's another story.)

 

[contender]

Well I am glad to hear your day was good....most any day spent diving is generally well spent.....I spent most of this day doing yard work and just got in from drag racing at a local track, tomm. diving!!

Just because I don't have an interest to get into full cave diving does not mean I don't have an interest in learning about its required training and such. We all have interest in certain things we just don't persue fully....I am sure you have a few.

Being an active diver of a few years and having dove 'way-back' I enjoy learning new things.....sorry you miss understood the premise of my original post.

If someone asking me about being a DM or the specifics of training to that level I do my best to explain the requirements.......if someone asks questions and shows interest in advanced mix gas diving I am always happy to share my experiences and answer their questions.

I fully understand what it takes to go from entry levels of scuba certf. to advanced technical programs having been down this road myself....so when I read this agencies published standards I just thought it a bit lean in the 'required' prior course work ....... and I agree with the notion that its a good thing instructors on these programs strongly suggest to their students to supplement their core cave courses with others that directly relate to serious cave diving...though not a requirement for certf. to full cave with this agency.

Fair enough, Look at NAUI's cave standards they are somewhat more demanding. Most places do get deep quick so if I were making the rules, I would require Adv. Nitrox/ Deco. as a pre-req for the apprentice/full cave level. Good luck with the drag racing, Gatornationals are going on down here right now.

Hey guys,

I just completed full cave last week, but I have been working up to this since I started doing technical diving back in August..

Congrats.