Upcoming new diver here. Couple certification questions and med question.

[stuartv]

It seems for a newb your always ready to lend some misinformation!

It seems we said the same thing - i.e. PADI won't do referral dives for students from other agencies. Not even other RSTC agencies. So, what misinformation did I spread?

 

[nolatom]

I dive Pensacola a couple of times a year, and like it. I got certified in Morrison and Vortex, then did my first ocean dives at Destin.

Springs are a coolish 68 year-round. But fun, and the rock stuff and cavern entrance are interesting (caves themselves a definite no-no).

After that, Pensacola in April may be a little cool:

https://www.sercc.com/climateinfo/historical/coastal_water_temps.html and at depth there may be a thermocline below which it's colder. I expect they'll dress you for it, though.

personally I usually wait til late may or early June when temps are high 70s or 80, and say 75 at depth. And by August it's like 82 all the way down. Reefs are underwhelming but wrecks and even bridge rubble, are fun.

The shops I've used are usually ScubaShack or MBT.

Anyway, I have no opinion the medical or Agency stuff. I'm PADI certified. Best of luck!

 

[stuartv]

No - PADI wants something specific in its dive instruction... it's called consistency. While every RSTC member follows the standards minimums set- every agency has their own standards and teaching systems- they also use different skill sets for defining "competency" at the Open Water level.

Also, if you find this reasonable justification for not accepting referral dives from other RSTC agencies, then how do you justify accepting other RSTC agencies' OW certifications as the prerequisite for PADI AOW?

At least if PADI accepted someone for referral dives, they would know that, regardless of the classroom and pool instruction received prior, the student would do all the PADI required dives and demonstrate all the PADI required skills before getting their C card. It seems to me that it should be up to the instructor to decide how much, if any, remedial training a student requires in order to then go on to the PADI OW cert dives.

Your logic says that PADI will accept someone that they define as "not demonstrated to be competent" (your word), who may only have 4 OW dives (their certification dives) under their belt, into their Advanced OW class. But they won't accept someone who has met the RSTC standards for class and pool to do their OW certification dives. That all seems a bit hypocritical (and calculated to maximize revenue) to me and my newb-ness.

 

[Omisson]

Also, if you find this reasonable justification for not accepting referral dives from other RSTC agencies, then how do you justify accepting other RSTC agencies' OW certifications as the prerequisite for PADI AOW?

At least if PADI accepted someone for referral dives, they would know that, regardless of the classroom and pool instruction received prior, the student would do all the PADI required dives and demonstrate all the PADI required skills before getting their C card. It seems to me that it should be up to the instructor to decide how much, if any, remedial training a student requires in order to then go on to the PADI OW cert dives.

Your logic says that PADI will accept someone that they define as "not demonstrated to be competent" (your word), who may only have 4 OW dives (their certification dives) under their belt, into their Advanced OW class. But they won't accept someone who has met the RSTC standards for class and pool to do their OW certification dives. That all seems a bit hypocritical (and calculated to maximize revenue) to me and my newb-ness.

No - again reading is fundamental- taking a NEW class is not the same as taking TWO DIFFERENT classes to call it one class.


There is no issue with the certification of a diver from an agency standard perspective within RTSC agencies - it's methodology and task expectation issue.

There is ZERO similarity between taking two different classes from different agencies and breaking up a single class BETWEEN agencies. In your world I should be able to pay SDI for their elearning course, take my pool at a PADI shop and then head to an SSI shop to do the open water dives... And then get a C-card from ????? Any???? All of the above?????

I'll try and make it simple.

I go to Columbia University and take Calculus 1. I get a B. I transfer to Oxford and sign up for Calculus 2- no problem. They credit my Calc 1 as a pre req compliant (that's OW at NAUI being able to go to a PADI AOW class).

I don't finish the Calculus 2 class- I take the whole class but not the final- I leave the area and start at Queens College- do I get to ask them to let me sit for their Calc 2 final and not take the class or pay for it? (That's ow being taken at multiple agencies).

---------- Post added March 25th, 2015 at 04:17 PM ----------

Your logic says that PADI will accept someone that they define as "not demonstrated to be competent" (your word), who may only have 4 OW dives (their certification dives) under their belt, into their Advanced OW class. But they won't accept someone who has met the RSTC standards for class and pool to do their OW certification dives. That all seems a bit hypocritical (and calculated to maximize revenue) to me and my newb-ness.

See again it's about actually reading what I wrote- not what you wanted to see in what I wrote.

I NEVER said "not demonstrated to be competent"- first it's bad grammar.

Second it's not contextually accurate.

What I said was:

".....every agency has their own standards and teaching systems- they also use different skill sets for defining "competency" at the Open Water level."

Meaning- each agency has DIFFERENT methods for evaluating skills and DIFFERENT teaching methods and DIFFERENT criteria for evaluating the competency of a student.

- which simply means you can't evaluate the color and texture of an apple by using a guide made for oranges....

 

[EFX]

I was diving in Hawaii 2 weeks ago. My dive op was a PADI shop. My first excursion was on a boat with just me, the DM, and a 12-year old boy who was there to do his OW certification (aka referral) dives. He had done the classroom and pool work at home and it was done as an SDI course. The dive op we were diving with said that PADI would not allow them to accept him for referral dives because his course work was done to another agency's standards.

I was inclined to believe them because they didn't just try to sell him a full PADI course. They appeared to work very hard to find an SDI instructor on the island who could come and dive with him to sign off on the OW referral dives. In the end, though, they couldn't and the kid had to re-do the written exam and I'm not sure what all else so that the shop could get him a PADI C card.

So, if you're planning to do your class and pool work with a non-PADI agency and then do the referral dive process to complete your training, you should work it out in advance that your destination dive op for the referral dives will be able to give you what you want.

I go to Columbia University and take Calculus 1. I get a B. I transfer to Oxford and sign up for Calculus 2- no problem. They credit my Calc 1 as a pre req compliant (that's OW at NAUI being able to go to a PADI AOW class). I don't finish the Calculus 2 class- I take the whole class but not the final- I leave the area and start at Queens College- do I get to ask them to let me sit for their Calc 2 final and not take the class or pay for it? (That's ow being taken at multiple agencies).

Have you never heard of testing out? My son took a couple calculus courses from our local community college while in high school. When he got to college he asked his math advisor to test out of Dif-E-Q (differential equations). His math advisor said no one tests out of Dif-E-Q and after an unsucessful attempt to persuade my son to take the course he allowed him to take the test which was one of the final exams. My son passed and was allowed to take higher level classes.

In regards to dive agencies standards I called a local PADI shop and the course director said he has no problems taking an SDI student on referral. He requires them to do a pool session to check skills. If they demonstrate adequate pool skills they would continue on to open water and hopefully finish their OW training. The issue stuartv brought up is that probably the dive shop either didn't want to take the time to check on the student's SDI work or they had trouble obtaining the information. They probably had enough business that turning away one student wouldn't make any difference to their bottom line. The advice given by stuartv to check with the destination dive shop regarding requirements to complete OW by referral is solid IMO.