Update on my "bent" friend...

[Hawkeye Mark]

Last year when I was taking the academic portion of DM class the other student stated that he had never had purchased dive insurance. This individual(who never finished the class) was a successful businessman who owned his own mortgage company. He had high-end equipment and took nice dive trips. When asked by the instructor and the DM who worked at the dive shop why he didnt have insurance, he said there wasnt that much risk. He also owns and drives a race car and said that was much riskier. It was pointed out to him the costs of a dive accident. He still saw no point in buying it.

Nothing may ever happen to this individual, but he is certainly playing with fire. His ego got in the way of common sense.

 

[miketsp]

Last year when I was taking the academic portion of DM class the other student stated that he had never had purchased dive insurance. This individual(who never finished the class) was a successful businessman who owned his own mortgage company. He had high-end equipment and took nice dive trips. When asked by the instructor and the DM who worked at the dive shop why he didnt have insurance, he said there wasnt that much risk. He also owns and drives a race car and said that was much riskier. It was pointed out to him the costs of a dive accident. He still saw no point in buying it.

Nothing may ever happen to this individual, but he is certainly playing with fire. His ego got in the way of common sense.

I don't see why he's playing with fire.
Insurance is basically just like gambling.
If you can afford to lose the stake money you don't need the insurance. Insurance includes a profit margin and a series of overheads.
So normally rich people and governments don't pay insurance to private insurers, they bank their own risks.

Example, I know one guy that has a personal fleet of top-end sports cars. The insurance premiums would come to about 20% of the cost of the fleet, ie more than 1 million US$ per year, every year. The guy has never been involved in anything other than a fender bender. Just with what he would pay for insurance, he can buy an extra couple of cars per year.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

I guess the difference is mike, the dive insurance isn't a million a year, it's $100.00+-. A drop in the bucket. One would be mad, IMO not to insure for this paltry amount, given the alternative could be pretty ugly. You'd have to go a lot of years without a mishap (100 years+-) for it to pay off..........do ya feel lucky

In this case, I don't think you can bank your own risk, but I do understand and actually use that method myself......but not in diving.

 

[berick]

I guess the difference is mike, the dive insurance isn't a million a year, it's $100.00+-. A drop in the bucket. One would be mad, IMO not to insure for this paltry amount, given the alternative could be pretty ugly. You'd have to go a lot of years without a mishap (100 years+-) for it to pay off..........do ya feel lucky

In this case, I don't think you can bank your own risk, but I do understand and actually use that method myself......but not in diving.

As someone who works in the insurance industry (not dive insurance), I'd have to agree with Steve whole-heartedly. There are several risks I'd self-insure, but, for the inexpensive cost of dive insurance and the potential risk, it really makes no sense to self-insure.

 

[lars2005]

Did DAN pick up the ticket for the ride in the chamber?????

 

[Christi]

Did DAN pick up the ticket for the ride in the chamber?????

Wow, you pulled this one out of the dust! Yes, they did within only a few days.

 

[cdiver2]

Wow, you pulled this one out of the dust! Yes, they did within only a few days.

A question

What do you consider a few days?

My understanding on how DAN insurance works.

Once DAN is informed of a claim the first thing they tell you is IF you have a primary insurance you must submit it to them first. At this point DAN will send you there claim form with instructions to send any paper work from your primary insurance, after you have submitted a claim and got an answer back.

If you have no primary insurance then you fill in the DAN claim form and send it back to them with a bill from the attending physician/chamber. If they are going to pay they send you a check and you pay the bill.
It would seem even with no primary insurance this would take more than a few days.

 

[Christi]

A question

What do you consider a few days?

My understanding on how DAN insurance works.

Once DAN is informed of a claim the first thing they tell you is IF you have a primary insurance you must submit it to them first. At this point DAN will send you there claim form with instructions to send any paper work from your primary insurance, after you have submitted a claim and got an answer back.

If you have no primary insurance then you fill in the DAN claim form and send it back to them with a bill from the attending physician/chamber. If they are going to pay they send you a check and you pay the bill.
It would seem even with no primary insurance this would take more than a few days.

Remember, there was MUCH more to it than this...but the very short and important version is what the final result was. DAN stood by the insured.

Dr. Piccolo's office filed the claim to DAN immediately.

The final bill was calculated on his last day of treatment, DAN was contacted. Chuck received a personal phone call from Dan Orr himself. Within 48 hours, he was fully compensated by DAN for his treatments.

I don't believe he had primary coverage for this accident.

Chuck, please correct me if I am wrong on any of this.

I will also add that when I got bent several years ago, DAN paid my entire claim within 60 days...but the claim was filed by Dr. Piccolo, so I was not out of pocket for any up front expenses. This was well before all of the DAN controversy. It is no secret that my opinion of DAN has waivered back and forth over the past couple of years. However, with much more knowledge of the situation, coupled with the fact that they have always done right by the insured in the end, I am very confident in DAN's services and continue to use them for myself AND I encourage other divers to sign up.

 

[cdiver2]

Remember, there was MUCH more to it than this...but the very short and important version is what the final result was. DAN stood by the insured.

Dr. Piccolo's office filed the claim to DAN immediately.

The final bill was calculated on his last day of treatment, DAN was contacted. Chuck received a personal phone call from Dan Orr himself. Within 48 hours, he was fully compensated by DAN for his treatments.

I don't believe he had primary coverage for this accident.

Chuck, please correct me if I am wrong on any of this.

I will also add that when I got bent several years ago, DAN paid my entire claim within 60 days...but the claim was filed by Dr. Piccolo, so I was not out of pocket for any up front expenses. This was well before all of the DAN controversy. It is no secret that my opinion of DAN has waivered back and forth over the past couple of years. However, with much more knowledge of the situation, coupled with the fact that they have always done right by the insured in the end, I am very confident in DAN's services and continue to use them for myself AND I encourage other divers to sign up.

I did not doubt that DAN would pay. Its just that I dont think that setteling within a few days is the norm. My claim took four months (with primary insurance).
Even a claim on a flooded camera took about 3-4 weeks.

 

[chuck86]

Christi you are right on all counts.

The only thing about the Dr. filing the claim in my case was that when he filed it was for his part. The hospital was seperate, which I paid with a Visa Card.

When DAN returned the letter to Dr. Piccolo they did as most insurance companies do. They discounted the bill some and then stated on the bill that Dr. Piccolo should accept this as payment in full.

I then told the Dr. not to accept that payment.

1. because he was not being paid in full for his bill and
2. If that was accepted as payment in full it left me with no way to recoup my
hospital costs.

That is when I told the Dr. to accept nothing, I would call my banker and send him the full amount. Then I would go to DAN with the complete list from the Dr and the hospital. When this was done DAN came through completely. Dan Ohr did call me and apologize for the inconvience and said that he would personally see that everything was taken care of.

It was; they sent me a check for the full amount even down to the costs for the wire transfer fees from my bank to Dr piccolo's bank.

I now have DAN preferred and I will say this: no one and I do mean NO ONE should ever get into the water without some sort of insurance.

Whatever type you have, but please do not dive without insurane.

When I got bent there was not one thing wrong with my dive. My computer shows no violations. It was 73 feet with a total time of 46 minutes.

That being said anyone can get bent at anytime. My total bill was just over $16,000 and without DAN it would have devastated my family for years to come.

That insurance is cheap at twice the price.

okay off the soap box now.