Use of the long free diving fins while on scuba when spearfishing

[danvolker]

Based on what you are saying, the only disadvantage of the free diving fins "in the water" will be when diving in the colder time of the year for us and having to wear either a drysuit or heavier boots which makes it difficult with the full foot fins.

Soles like this are ideal....and you can wear a neoprene sock inside this for extra warmth...or, find a bootie that is well insulated, with the same fairly thin sole this has. ** I just cut off the strap going over the instep...totally non-functional, and you could feel it inside a foot pocket.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

You can NOT wear typical full foot fins with a boot. They fit tightly and conform to your feet. This also serves to improve propulsion because of improved energy transfer. Freedivers using closed heel footpockets go barefoot, wear nylon socks, or neoprene socks, but anything with a sole (as in a boot) will not fit in a that type of fin.

I have worn two pairs of 3 mm neoprene socks in Maine in cold water and been fine. If you want to use boots, you will have to find footpockets with an open heel.. there are a few selections, but they are not commonly seen.

I just saw some surf booties that might work. My LDS got into surf stuff now so I was able to look at surf booties to see if there might be an application for diving, and yes! low and behold I think they would work quite well for use with freediving fins provided the foot pocket is big enough to allow for the extra. Surf booties are very thin soled and slick looking, not nearly as clunky as regular scuba booties. The sole on surf booties are very thin and tough and allow for some limited shore/beach hikes. The big toe is also divided so a person could actually wear flip flops on walks to the shore. I suppose they do this so the surfer can "grip" the board with their toes.
I saw they have them in 3 mil and 5 mil.
I'm going to get some and I'll let you guys know how they work. I know on the East coast they may not be easily had like out here, but I'll find the best ones and let you guys know and then you can get them online.


Patagonia - Search Results

 

[danvolker]

I use a halcyon 18 pound lift wing, and steel backplate...no extra weight....slick wetsuit....and Dive R fins for most of my dives....in maybe 20 PERCENT OF DIVES, i USE SCOOTERS..mostly for camera stabilization.

I would love to have a slick backplate like Eric makes, and I am already planning on finding some old steel 72's, so that my buoyancy shift is so negligible, that I could remove the 18 pound lift wing....it is not a lot of drag....but when you experience a complete absence of drag---the nonsense of an un-needed wing get's old fast

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I use a halcyon 18 pound lift wing, and steel backplate...no extra weight....slick wetsuit....and Dive R fins for most of my dives....in maybe 20 PERCENT OF DIVES, i USE SCOOTERS..mostly for camera stabilization.

I would love to have a slick backplate like Eric makes, and I am already planning on finding some old steel 72's, so that my buoyancy shift is so negligible, that I could remove the 18 pound lift wing....it is not a lot of drag....but when you experience a complete absence of drag---the nonsense of an un-needed wing get's old fast

When I did my testing I did not have any wing. I figured the water flow going over my head and behind me got divided on each side of the tank and flowed down the wedge shaped channels formed by the tank and my back. This would be the space that a wing would normally occupy. So even a super small wing like a narrow 18# wing would still be there and obstruct water flow through this area. I was using one second stage on a 40" hose and ran it under my right arm to keep hose off my shoulder, and the SPG was on a short version hose with no clip on it, I had it tucked under my waist belt up front with all the slack taken out. Both hoses were pointed downward off the first stage which was a Conshelf 21, tank was a steel 72 pumped to 3000. If you were to look at me from the front it would have looked like I was freediving and had nothing on. I also took off the tank boot figuring that the lip might catch water and interrupt flow at high speed and prevent water from sliding off the end of the tank smoothly. I also didn't have any D-rings on the harness because this was strictly a performance test and I wasn't clipping anything off.
You have to think about all this stuff when looking for max performance.
And the wetsuit was a back zip 4 mil one piece with a hooded vest underneath. Lake Tahoe isn't that cold this time of year.
The fastest speeds I got were when I was dead flat with my body as straight as I could make it, cruising with my arms back to my sides with a steady well paced flutter kick not too wide in stroke. I found greater speeds could be achieved by keeping the kick small but increasing the cycle speed, just like a fish moves it's tail faster not wider. I also experimented with putting both fins together and doing a dolphin style kick using my torso. This generated a lot of speed with minimal effort also but employs an entirely different set of muscles - it's all core strength and conditioning for that.

Drysuits and poodle jackets with freedive fins would be like holding out two pieces of plywood sideways on your car then trying to drive down the freeway at 75 MPH.

 

[diversteve]

Besides what Eric posted, these might work pretty well in full-pocket fins.



O'Neill Heat Ninja Split Toe 3mm Boots, Black 5 1771-002-5

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I was just at the dive shop getting fills and saw they has Xcel 5mm
surf booties. No zippers, these didn't have a split toe but were more ergo looking that regular dive booties, and had a skin seal that tapered in at the top. The only thing is they have a strap across the top of the foot that may get in the way of the fin foot pocket. But it could be easily cut off

---------- Post added July 11th, 2015 at 10:30 PM ----------

Here is a 7mm version of the bootie I saw. These might be the silver bullet I've been looking for for years now. They might even work with my Jets since I'm forcing my foot into an XL with size 13 Aqualung scuba booties. It's quite a circus act watching me in the surf zone trying to get my fins off. I figure with the more streamlined surf bootie with thinner sole it will be better. But notice the strap across the top, this is the only thing that might be an issue, but a razor blade and a fine surgical proceedure will take care of that.
XCEL 7MM DRYLOCK ROUND TOE BOOT > Surf > Wetsuits > Booties | SWELL.com

 

[charlier]

+1 for dumpsterDive and danvolker on the wonders and benefits of freedive fins for scuba. I use freedive fins for just about all of my diving in Indonesia and SE Asia. Freedive fins are great in strong currents (e.g., Komodo or Bali). In addition, as DM, freedive fins offer a real edge for safety. Freedive fins shine while gathering or grabbing someone's hand in a group with currents. The fins work well with frog kicks, pivots, and back finning.

The downsides to freedive fins are not a big issue. Clearly, the fins are not appropriate in tight spaces - no surprise here. They are somewhat inconvenient taking off the fins while getting on a boat or RIB, in particular with a swell or strong currents. With practice, its not that big of a deal, at least until I drop a fin ;~(

Since the fins get in the way on a small boat or RIB, I hold them in my lap Giant stride - not problem going in heel first. I purchased inexpensive fins (Mares Razor Pro), mostly because I worry about high-end carbon fiber fins holding up in a work environment. At the end of the day, freedive fins are wonderful in the water.

Yes the real benefit is the ability to SUSTAIN a good swimmng pace with low exertion!

99% of all freedive fins have a closed heel pocket. This is less convenient to put on and take off than say a scuba fin with a good spring heel strap. however a closed heel footpocket produces less drag and it is MUCH less likely to get caught on fishing line or your shooting line. It is easy to get line caught on the buckles/sides of a scuba fin with an open heel.

So getting out of the water on most ladders requires removal of the big fins, with a closed heel pocket this is a small disadvantage. Diving in super cold water with thick gloves,, it might be more of a pain...

The only significant disadvantage of large freedive fins is when gearing up on a small boat. It is tough to maneuver. Often it is easiest to just do a back roll off a small boat.. no walking around, no opportunity to trip and the fins will not be stressed by a back roll.

In the water, the freedive fins are far superior.

 

[danvolker]

ONE OTHER major issue for better effective propulsion with powerful fins like freedive fins...
Just as with Runners and expensive running shoes...or Skiers and Ski boots...or Roller Bladers .....If you want optimal power transfer and optimal control...and to eliminate cramping, you get a pair of decent orthotics and put them in your booties or bottom of full foot fin....most of us do NOT have flat feet, so using fins with flat bottoms. with the top of the fin pushing down on your foot, is going to fatigue the foot muscles and be uncomfortable for anyone with a high arch.
Why you dont see arch supports as normal for use in diving is beyond me....I have used them since the 90's....I have high arches....it made a huge difference for so many issues, I can only react with anoynace at an industry that misses something this basic and important.....but then, the dive industry is a place where instructors are fond of saying that you only need to go slow....

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

With freedive fins you can go fast, OR you can go slow.
With most scuba fins you go slow.
It's whatever you're into. Sometimes I go slow but more times than not I need to cover a lot of ground.
I think the reason a lot of instructors push going slow is so that the students won't tire themselves out and burn through a bunch of air, which might lead them to figure out how crappy and unstreamlined the standard gear is that they were sold.
But then I suppose the shop (or instructor) could tell them that's how it is and if they want to go fast then they'll need to buy a scooter for $$$$$.

 

[BoltSnap]

Is it more difficult to start with the freediving fins? Does it require a long time to get used to them and not get cramps in the legs?