Using LDS for a fitting room

[Lead_carrier]

It's been and interesting poll and discussion and amazingly civil. I do work part time at a dive shop and can usually get a very good indication, in a few minutes, if someone is really interested in buying or just using us as a fitting room. At that point, I'll usually just ask them outright if they're serious about buying. If they're just looking or serious about buying, I'll continue to help them out. If they let it slip that they are just trying things on so they know what to order from an online site, then I'll slowly slip away and not be as helpful. Not rude but not as helpful as I could be. I did have some friends one time tell me straight up that they would be coming in to try on wetsuits and then they would know what size to order online. When they showed up I asked if they were dead set on buying online, they said yes. Then they got ticked when I just pointed to the wall where the wetsuits were hanging. They didn't speak to me again for about 4 years.

 

[SaltyPirateBastard]

No, I prefer using LSD instead.

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

It's been and interesting poll and discussion and amazingly civil. I do work part time at a dive shop and can usually get a very good indication, in a few minutes, if someone is really interested in buying or just using us as a fitting room. At that point, I'll usually just ask them outright if they're serious about buying. If they're just looking or serious about buying, I'll continue to help them out. If they let it slip that they are just trying things on so they know what to order from an online site, then I'll slowly slip away and not be as helpful. Not rude but not as helpful as I could be. I did have some friends one time tell me straight up that they would be coming in to try on wetsuits and then they would know what size to order online. When they showed up I asked if they were dead set on buying online, they said yes. Then they got ticked when I just pointed to the wall where the wetsuits were hanging. They didn't speak to me again for about 4 years.

Your statement begs the question were they truly friends or just diving acquantances?
If they were strangers that walked in you'd need to do your job and service the customer. The least you should do for friends is treat them as well as strangers unless other customers walk in and then you need to take care of business. As for your friends not buying if you had the authority to mark down and told them you'd come as close to the online price as possible without loosing money and they still ordered online I'd be pissed off. If you couldn't markdown and your friends were just asking a buddy for help getting sized up then you aren't much of a friend.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Your statement begs the question were they truly friends or just diving acquantances?
If they were strangers that walked in you'd need to do your job and service the customer. The least you should do for friends is treat them as well as strangers unless other customers walk in and then you need to take care of business. As for your friends not buying if you had the authority to mark down and told them you'd come as close to the online price as possible without loosing money and they still ordered online I'd be pissed off. If you couldn't markdown and your friends were just asking a buddy for help getting sized up then you aren't much of a friend.

I thought they were friends, probably were more just acquaintances. I had the authority to mark down within reason. They knew what the price would be before they said they would stop by to fit themselves. I couldn't match the online price but I was within about $25-30 on a $200 suit. They insisted that they wanted a different one. Hey, I can live with that, NO ONE gets every sale but don't tell me you're gonna use me and expect me to fall over backwards for you. They got over it and I did too and since then they will at least let me try to make a deal with them. For the record tho, I have taken some wonderful a$$ chewings for marking things down too much when I felt like I could get away with it. And I have been fired 6 times. Hired 7.

 

[Whitewatermike]

My local dive shop is reasonably competitive with online retailers such as Liesure Pro and Scuba.com (yeah I know they have brick-n-mortar but it's a joke shopping there). Some items are more but rarely so much so that I would buy online instead. I prefer to support the local LDS, for several reasons:

1. I can try before I buy and not feel bad because I was just using them.
2. If something goes wrong with the product, they take care of it on the spot. No hassles, no return shipping, no return authorization. Just this year, I had to send a BC and a light in for repair.
3. Try get free air feels for being a loyal customer at an online shop. 53 dives thus far this year X $5 per fill = Money.
4. Try taking something you bought at Leisure Pro to your LDS for service. Mine won't.
5. Most dive shop employees dive the stuff they sell. Assuming your LDS has integrity, you'll get more honest product evaluations than some customer service rep on a phone bank who might not even dive.

It is fair to you're homework first, shop around, and negotiate the price with the LDS. However, it's pretty crappy to use a shop to try on a suit and then go buy it online.

 

[Seraphimx]

My local dive shop is reasonably competitive with online retailers such as Liesure Pro and Scuba.com (yeah I know they have brick-n-mortar but it's a joke shopping there). Some items are more but rarely so much so that I would buy online instead. I prefer to support the local LDS, for several reasons:

1. I can try before I buy and not feel bad because I was just using them.
2. If something goes wrong with the product, they take care of it on the spot. No hassles, no return shipping, no return authorization. Just this year, I had to send a BC and a light in for repair.
3. Try get free air feels for being a loyal customer at an online shop. 53 dives thus far this year X $5 per fill = Money.
4. Try taking something you bought at Leisure Pro to your LDS for service. Mine won't.
5. Most dive shop employees dive the stuff they sell. Assuming your LDS has integrity, you'll get more honest product evaluations than some customer service rep on a phone bank who might not even dive.

It is fair to you're homework first, shop around, and negotiate the price with the LDS. However, it's pretty crappy to use a shop to try on a suit and then go buy it online.

3- Good going
4- Why would they do that, it is absurd and would tell them I'd never shop there again in my life. Seriously, If I buy a Honda in NY and try to service it in NJ, why would the mechanic in NJ tell me he won't accept it there. Same principle applies. I'm always amazed by the stupidity of some LDS and sometimes the way they are truly dangerous to some divers.
5- Can you seriously think it's unbiased if the sell only that brand/model and even if they are honest people they will be subconsciously or partially biased.

True, doing it purposely is pretty rotten, but going with the intent to buy, trying some on and not finding any fair prices would be a good enough cause to buy online.

Also, some LDS have pretty rotten business practices and try to fleece some divers or just plainly are a menace. Why should divers respect those LDS that truly do not care about the diver. It's a rotten thing fleece a new diver, why don't we judge those LDS equally?

PS: I'm not criticizing you Whitewatermike, just noting on you post some practices that truly bother me from some LDS.

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

I have to agree with Seraphimx.

Some LDS are awful business people with rotten practices. Telling a customer to take their service needs elsewhere because they didn't make the original sale is BS.
It's the old saying "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" Besides that in most cases it voids the sales & service agreements the LDS signed with the manufacturer. If they are an "authorized dealer" then they are responsible to handle warranty issues in a professional manner regardless of who made the original sale as long as that was another authorized dealer.

As for customers that come in for fitting that is part of the business for items that require sizing. Again manufacturers have sales agreements with dealers who carry their line of products. Most require professionalism when dealing with customers.

The other side of scuba sales and service industry is a big scam. Put the word scuba on any item and it's price triples. The words used to justify this are liability, safety, life support, insurance and the like. In most cases it's nothing more than a way to force people to spend more by not allowing self service and restricting sales of service parts and a scare tactic to "invest in your own safety"

Maybe having the majority of LDS close isn't such a bad thing. Before they existed there were local dive clubs that purchased and serviced as a group to contain the associated costs of the sport. Going back to a similar structure with the support of the online retailers may be an answer to where you'll get your fills and a basis for a further discount on group purchases.
The LDS that want to survive will need to restructure their businesses to match pricing and offer service that can't be offered online or within a club structure.

 

[Shasta_man]

Stuff like wetsuits and masks, I would typically buy at the LDS, because I can try them on and they aren't usually that much more than online.

The LDS that charges more for repairing gear from the Internet is ridiculous. How can you tell if I bought it from the Internet or from another dive shop? Do they charge more for that too? They get a little bigger piece of the pie but just that one time a year.

I find many of the dive shops don't know jack about customer service and too many have the "camera store expert I can't talk to you" attitude. Totally clueless about how to keep a customer coming back. When I got certified locally, they set me up with two complete sets of gear for the wife and I, of course for cold water, which is the minority of my diving. Something like $5K+. Guess what that got me with the store? Nothing. Don't expect a best friend greeting but at least acknowledgement and basic customer service. Instead I can stand in there for ten minutes while all the employees grab ass at the counter and never speak to me while I look at the dive boots I want to try on. I got great customer service from ScubaToys.com the next day when I bought them. It seems to me if I owned the business I would be talking to everyone who enters the store and use a "maybe no sale today, but maybe a big sale tomorrow" attitude.

 

[Seraphimx]

As far as I can see you can divide LDS most of the type (exception to this rule exist...sometimes)

Travel LDS:
-Scuba is an expensive and life threatening sport, that why they put 150%+ of MSRP. (Good exemple, reg at 800$MSRP is shown at 1200$ or more)
-Gear should be carefully maintained, that's why they charge 200% for some nameless tech to repair it.
-The owner doesn't know how to repair gear, it's too technical for him.
-I don't accept to repair stuff bought from others, you're not a faithful diver.
-Explanations are hard and cost $, that's why we put some idiot at the front.
-Travel divers won't even know if it's good or not, they'll use it months later on vacation, it'll be too late for a refund.
-I love to fleece new divers, they don't know Tusa Imprex fins aren't a new model and that it shouldn't cost 200$.
-I don't repair used or internet stuff because I didn't sell it.
-I don't repair stuff recalled by SP/AL because I didn't sell it. (it happened to me)
-AL/SP warranties are country specific, not worldwide. (look at above, his reason)
-I sell new tanks "on special" that have hydro and viz past due, I give a nice rebate and don't tell anyone, when someone ask I tell them tanks never come new with an hydro/viz or just ignore them. (it happened to me)
-Let's sell some overpriced travel packages so that I can get a vacation for free, while being there as a "dive guide".
-I sell packages (BCD, REG etc) but they are rock solid can't change some items, it's take it or leave it. (What if something doesn't fit properly?)
-I have insta-diver classes, high-cost and not often because it's expensive to rent a pool.
-A BP/W is a really expensive type of BCD, only people that REALLY want it will pay my retarded price.
-I charge for trying on 200$ wetsuits I sell at 500$. Hey, what's internet?

Local divers LDS:
-I give fair prices, not as good as LP, but not far.
-I give outstanding service.
-I answer all your questions because I'm an experienced diver.
-I give you a bonus if you come often (free fills and such)
-I make some good packages, a flexible package and all included package, at a higher price but with fit warranty.
-I have nice classes, not really on the cheap side, but 1 group every week.
-I make nice local trips, I let travel agencies make dive trips.
-I know what a BP/W is or a Sidemount.
-I rent steel tanks and doubles.

Someone wants to add something?

So to go back to the subject,
I'd feel pretty rotten to use the local divers LDS.
Would I really feel bad about using the Vacation LDS as a fitting room? Not really, would I do it? Maybe next time. Would it be necessary? No but after the amount I spent to get fleeced, I'd do it just for the heck of it.

 

[baitballer]

As someone who works in the book industry there are times when I could quite happily shoot customers for doing the same thing. I particularly like it when they ask if I have wi-fi so they can download they books they see in my store from Amazon or ask for a paper and pen to write them down so they can ordered them online when they get home! But they all claim to love walking and browsing in bookstores!

It is a sign of the times that people want to order things online and save money however, it will be a sad day in the not too distant future when retail stores no longer excist the way they do now and 'retail therapy' will be done at home on your computer screen. For the most part it is nearly impossible for LDS or any other physical retailer to be able to compete with an online store, they simply have more and higher costs.

The questions the customer needs to ask is do I like having a store that I can go into and look around, touch, feel the products and talk to someone who knows about them or am I happy just going by the picture on the screen and buying that way. The bottom line is if you do not support your local stores, they will not be there in the future.