Using LDS for a fitting room

[Flatliner]

Many new divers will experience that scenario as I did many years ago. No combustion and I still have my hair. What I did come out of it with is disappointment at how the shop told me what a great deal I was getting and a lesson - BEWARE OF SCUBA RETAILERS. So now, I do my research first and I shop around. The result is I make almost no major purchases in LDSs. And I tell other new divers of my experience so they need not learn that same lesson the hard way.

I think you just hit on THE key problem with the current industry sales model. As a new diver, I started with a sense of goodwill and trust with my LDS, by the time I sat through the Amway presentation they called the OW classroom session and then realized how overcharged I was on personal equipment, that goodwill was gone.

 

[Chris Horn]

I know I shop all my prices around. When I first started with the biggest dive shop in my area, I just took thier word for it and bought what I needed. I have since found out that they were way overpriced and pretty much just said what ever they could to make a sale. I now go to another dive shop that is a bit smaller, but oh so much better. With the prices he gives me, I have no need of buying anything online (even if it was a little cheaper, which its not), I have at this point only bought one item online...and I regret it. It would have been money saved by spending it at Bob's place (I bought a used item, so no comparison). Even if he was a bit higher on some general item now, I would buy it from him for the service, to keep him in business, and the overall savings I make over the course of the year. I wish I had found this shop first as I would like to have purchased my entire set up from him. Live and Learn. If the dive shop is skinning you, keep looking. If it is the only dive shop around, make your choice, either keep him in business or don't. Its your money, spend it where you want but dont expect others to cater to your whim if you don't throw them a bone now and again.

 

[matthewmark_john]

I know I shop all my prices around. When I first started with the biggest dive shop in my area, I just took thier word for it and bought what I needed. I have since found out that they were way overpriced and pretty much just said what ever they could to make a sale. I now go to another dive shop that is a bit smaller, but oh so much better. With the prices he gives me, I have no need of buying anything online (even if it was a little cheaper, which its not), I have at this point only bought one item online...and I regret it. It would have been money saved by spending it at Bob's place (I bought a used item, so no comparison). Even if he was a bit higher on some general item now, I would buy it from him for the service, to keep him in business, and the overall savings I make over the course of the year. I wish I had found this shop first as I would like to have purchased my entire set up from him. Live and Learn. If the dive shop is skinning you, keep looking. If it is the only dive shop around, make your choice, either keep him in business or don't. Its your money, spend it where you want but dont expect others to cater to your whim if you don't throw them a bone now and again.

This is the ideal situation, and one I've been in (not matching internet prices, but still being reasonable--at least my definition--at about 20% over online) in one placed I lived. IMHO, I think if this was the norm, then the internet dive industry wouldn't be doing so well. At least for me, others have hit the nail on the head with what my experiences have been like. It was the bad service, bad attitudes when I balked at ridiculously high prices, and in general, treating me like I was incompetent and incapable of understanding anything about my gear unless I took all of their specialized courses. I have been servicing/rebuilding power inflators for years now, not a single hitch. Before I did that, I rebuilt my own engines. Is a guy like me really not smart enough/mechanically inclined enough to be explained how to fix a leaking power inflator? And this same shop sells save-a-dive kits with o-rings. Why would they do that if customers are incapable of properly using them? Things like this drove me away from many dive shops, and there was no way I was going to buy equipment from them if I didn't have to.

Now of course, I wasn't going to their place to try stuff out either because I knew I wasn't going to buy there, mainly for personal reasons. But when I found a shop that even offered to show me how they rebuild regs, they had my business, even though they were even more expensive. Now I wasn't looking to service my own regulators, but being mechanically inclined I was curious as to how they work/what they look like inside. The funny thing is, them showing me the details of the process is what made me decide that I would definitely not ever try to service my own regs, because I really saw the value in taking them in to that shop. Regulators are incredibly simple. But they had all the specialized and adjusting tools, lubes, testing equipment, etc., that would enable them to do a much better job than I ever could. So it was the shop that trusted me with knowledge that actually converted me to the idea that a good LDS offers value that no one else can.

Incidentally they even trusted me to reconfigure my hose routing all by myself -- even without a class! Their accurate knowledge (which is somewhat rare, sadly), recognition of the difference between a fact and their own opinions, and tolerance of me forming my own opinions (it's amazing how some are so intolerant of this) is what I really kept coming back for. And you know what? Just because I didn't want to freeload, I often bought things from them that I didn't even need. I felt like a peer, respected, an equal, and I wanted to return that respect and appreciation. Did I get myself into unreasonable debt for that? No, but I ate PBJs for lunch a lot more often than I would have so I could fit them into my budget.

How does that fit in with the LDS-as-fitting-room scenario? Well, have a good relationship with customers, and they wont want to take advantage of you, because you are now also their friends and colleagues. How many people are there out there really who are willing to take advantage of a friend? If it's those people we're all mad about, we might as well save our breath, because anyone with that weak of a conscience doesn't care what you think of them, they really care only about themselves. And proportionately, there's not very many who are like that,thankfully.

But be rude/condescending/deceptive/unreasonable, and even a lot of otherwise decent people won't feel bad for wasting your time, since you do precisely that to them.

 

[Tortuga68]

How many people are there out there really who are willing to take advantage of a friend? If it's those people we're all mad about, we might as well save our breath, because anyone with that weak of a conscience doesn't care what you think of them, they really care only about themselves. And proportionately, there's not very many who are like that,thankfully

Only about 5.63% of people, apparently

 

[redacted]

Only about 5.63% of people, apparently

But a disproportionate number of them must be divers or dive shop owners????

WTH are you saying?

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

^^ I think he meant 5.6% were cut throats who place no value on the LDS and shop on price alone even if they visit the LDS and try on a suit. The LDS owners would most likely be in the 77% who claim they would never try on something at an LDS and buy on-line.

Most people place at least some value on the LDS who provides them with good service. For me (rightly or wrongly) this is about 20%. This is also consistent with what I tip a good boat crew or an excellent waiter at a nice restaurant. Bottom line I am not trying to prop up a dying business model nor insure their survival, but rather I recognize the personalized service and am willing to pay a reasonable sum for it.

 

[k ellis]

Most people place at least some value on the LDS who provides them with good service. For me (rightly or wrongly) this is about 20%. This is also consistent with what I tip a good boat crew or an excellent waiter at a nice restaurant. Bottom line I am not trying to prop up a dying business model nor insure their survival, but rather I recognize the personalized service and am willing to pay a reasonable sum for it.

I agree but when I can save enough money to put gas in my tank for a whole week. Buy a nice meal at a fancy restaurant for 7 days a week. get 7 2 tank dives included and then afford to pay my bills and stock my fridge all off of one purchase thats not reasonable by no means. Case in point is I went to a LDS once and asked about a dive knife. They had the style I wanted in stainless steele for 70 dollars. I went online and bought the titanium version for 40 dollars. Wow something was wrong there.

I went to purchase a BCD once and was told MSRP only. 700 dollars? But online the EXACT same one was 318 dollars. thats a savings right there of almost 400 dollars!

Then you hear the shenanigans that the LDS are trying to pull such as charging 25 dollars flat to try on a wet suit????? Sorry thats bad business no matter how one looks at it. I would see or even hear that come out of someones mouth I would turn and leave instantly even if I had cash in hand with the intent to buy that day. I just dont feel because others are doing something the LDS does not like I should be punished for it and flat out refuse to be punished for it.

 

[scubadobadoo]

I think you are saying you don't pimp the LDS, unless they in your mind 'deserve it', since you will never go there try something and buy it. You go there try it, then research it for a few months, find the absolute lowest price and then buy it from there, if it happens to be the LDS you'll bless them with your business, but if it isn't then oh well, you gave them a shot with all your full crocodile tear intensions to have bought from them, had they just been able to clear your guantlet of consumer ideals? Is this correct?

What would happen if you accidently paid 'too' much at the LDS? If you went there, found what you wanted, could afford it and just bought it, but later found out you could have bought it cheaper somewhere else? Woud you go to hell as a result? Would you spontaneously combust on the spot? Would all your hair fall out? Just wondering what the dire consequences would be?

Could you imagine going to a LDS, trying something, buying it and NEVER finding out if you could have gotten it cheaper somewhere else, and just went on with your life? That would be freak'n crazy! Probably kill a few people here.

No, you are putting all kinds of words in my mouth and being a little silly. I do and have spent thousands at LDS and have even paid more...ONLY good ones without the Amway presentation mentioned though. That said, I still won't pay 2K more at one place than at another for a dry suit and in this specific case I didn't buy it online but instead I just went to another LDS and bought it from them and received wonderful service and then spent another 2K in the same shop because they offered me great service AND a decent price. Paying 2k more is a rip off and I don't care if you give me free oil changes for life. In the end though, I never have and never will hold any real value in the "club atmosphere" at many dive shops. I have a dive buddy, I like to go on vacation with one person or maybe another couple, and I have always been lucky enough to live in major cities with plenty of options for good and bad LDS's and I have always had water close by. Some value these things and that is great for them! No hard feelings. Really.

I don't dislike every LDS but I have been in way too many that charged retail plus and gave me wonky, pushy and sometimes just plain wrong advice. On the flip side, as I have said many times, I have also been in some good ones too and in those I have spent my money. And btw, I would never accidentally spend 2k plus in a LDS and in fact my point is that NOBODY EVER SHOULD!

 

[dmoore19]

I would bet the $25 would be waived if you had been a customer there before. If not then, go someplace else. No sense going ballistic. It's your money, spend it where you want and how you want

 

[Coral-Reefer]

So, I went diving yesterday at our local lake and stopped by the LDS yesterday. I wanted to say hi to the owner and just see what was going on. He was filling another guy's tanks and talking about Cozumel and I joined in the conversation. I asked if he had any Spare Air kits in stock and he said he ordered them 2 at a time but was out at the time. The other customer said he had a buddy that passed away a some time back while doing what he loved, coaching soccer, and that he had gotten all of his buddy's dive gear. He had his Spare Air (3.0 cf) and it was almost like new and he would sell it to me for $100. As you know, these go for $249-299. He even offerred to go home (30 minute drive) get his Harley and the spare air and drive back to the lake to give it to me! The LDS owner was glad it worked out for both of us.

Then I asked if the LDS had a couple of items which he didn't have and I told him I needed another bottle of SPIT. I asked him if I could replace the skirt on my Scubapro Clear Vu mask with purge valve as it has gotten cloudy. He said no and told me to clean it with Dawn and water and it would look like new. He mentioned the new Clear Vu Plus masks with purge and said they were awesome. It felt really good when I tried it on and I asked how much while thinking $100 was my purchase point and he said $89 so I bought one. Well, today I look online and they go for as low as $40, + shipping but no tax, on line. WHAT? He charged me more than double! So, I ask myself if it was worth the extra $45? Absolutely. He filled my tank for $5, I got to enjoy the always wonderful experience of browsing the shop and meeting folks, talking about trips and music and life in general. I made a new friend and maybe future dive / trip buddy. Shoot, $100 would have still been a bargain. I would do it again even for a wetsuit that I may pay $100 more than I would online. I want to have that dive shop there for us to visit in the future and am willing to help him do so.

Diving is interesting for an almost infinite number of reasons, one of which is that while it can be a very solitary and self reliant undertaking, it is also one of the most social activities I have ever done! Real, human, face to face relationships... can't get that from a damned computer.