Fishkiller
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What constitutes cold water?
- Thread starter jbd
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keralucu
Senior Member
LOL
striking viking
Guest
Trying to get the vb code to work for me. Hang in there, the lights are almost on :idea:
Adding on the extra ten feet for a dive in coldwater doesnt apply to people who already live in colder temperate regions. For example, 3-4 degrees C is cold but us brits are used to that sort of temperature. This is what i have been taught in my PADI and BSAC classes.
striking viking
Guest
LET ME RESPOND TO YOUR QUESTION IN AS FEW WORDS AS POSSIBLE, NO.
OP
Striking Viking,
I took Rick's answer to mean that this was stress related and based on what exposure protection was in use. Ricks answer seems to be supported by what Frog has been taught in Britian. So is the stress from cold automatic or subjective? Do you have a source of information on why that 10 ft add on is used and what the specific reasoning is? I am hoping that you do since this is important to me.
PADI also says to add that same 10 feet if you dive in low vis.--again related to stress. These particualr dives were cold but the vis was 20 to 25 feet which is much better than I'm used to.
I guess what I'm trying to ferret out is details of why PADI has made these recommendations or is there simply a general agreement that stress of any kind increases nitrogen uptake. Just stress, which appears to be highly subjective, seems to be out of place for an activity that is highly scientific in its existence.
BTW way I have truly enjoyed all the responses.
jbd
I took Rick's answer to mean that this was stress related and based on what exposure protection was in use. Ricks answer seems to be supported by what Frog has been taught in Britian. So is the stress from cold automatic or subjective? Do you have a source of information on why that 10 ft add on is used and what the specific reasoning is? I am hoping that you do since this is important to me.
PADI also says to add that same 10 feet if you dive in low vis.--again related to stress. These particualr dives were cold but the vis was 20 to 25 feet which is much better than I'm used to.
I guess what I'm trying to ferret out is details of why PADI has made these recommendations or is there simply a general agreement that stress of any kind increases nitrogen uptake. Just stress, which appears to be highly subjective, seems to be out of place for an activity that is highly scientific in its existence.
BTW way I have truly enjoyed all the responses.
jbd
Dr Deco
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Dear Readers:
I actuality, diving in cold water and decompression while warm is actually beneficial. This does have some restrictions, however. If one is really cold and tries to increase the body heat by vigorously moving about under water, this will increase the blood flow and promote on gassing. I, on the other hand, one is cold and not moving much, the peripheral circulation will be reduced as the body mechanisms work to save heat in the trunk and head (brain).
It is often said that cold is bad. The US Navy has found that its heated suits seemed to lead to decompression problems. The though is that being warm at depth is better for gas uptake (which you really do not want). Then being somewhat cooler at surface is bad for gas elimination. You do want good off gassing.
Dr Deco
The application of conservatism to existing tables has been approached by different agencies in different ways over the years - I've seen "add depth," "add time," "add a group deisgnator" used for cold, hot, exertion, stress - you name it. What they're all trying to do is to compensate for the inherent inaccuracies and high variablilty in individual response to varying situations while breathing compressed gas at depth.
To my knowledge there is no hard science behind any of the methods, but rather a recognition that stress, whether cold, heat, fatigue, mental or otherwise will likely affect the margins of the tables and some shrinkage of the safety envelope is warranted. How much remains a debatable issue.
Rick
To my knowledge there is no hard science behind any of the methods, but rather a recognition that stress, whether cold, heat, fatigue, mental or otherwise will likely affect the margins of the tables and some shrinkage of the safety envelope is warranted. How much remains a debatable issue.
Rick
striking viking
Guest
jbd,
Sorry if I misled you in that direction; that wasn't intended. I don't have any specific info on deducting ten feet from the dive tables for any reason. I was being somewhat facetious. The water you are diving in is incredibly cold, unless you're a penguin. The Navy dive tables are, from what I understand, a lot more permissive than what PADI has followed, but I'm not recommending you do anything other than what you were taught in your O/W training until you fully check it out. What I can recommend for you-if you don't already have one-is a dive computer. I have safely dove beyond what the dive tables would allow while using the profile my computer calculated. Again, sorry if you were misled by my comments. I really didn't mean for that to happen.
Sorry if I misled you in that direction; that wasn't intended. I don't have any specific info on deducting ten feet from the dive tables for any reason. I was being somewhat facetious. The water you are diving in is incredibly cold, unless you're a penguin. The Navy dive tables are, from what I understand, a lot more permissive than what PADI has followed, but I'm not recommending you do anything other than what you were taught in your O/W training until you fully check it out. What I can recommend for you-if you don't already have one-is a dive computer. I have safely dove beyond what the dive tables would allow while using the profile my computer calculated. Again, sorry if you were misled by my comments. I really didn't mean for that to happen.
OP
Striking Viking,
No worries. I'm looking for information to increase my overall understanding of diving. I don't feel you misled me at all. The good thing about these boards is the ability to share the information that literally hundreds of people will have about something. I think that the post by Rick Murchison is very much on target with the thinking PADI used to base their recommendations. Also the post by Dr. Deco about the Navy findings is quite interesting. I'm currently taking the NAUI rescue course and in their book cold water increases the likelihood of DCS. I guess the different viewpoints is what keeps life interesting.
Safe diving to all.
jbd
No worries. I'm looking for information to increase my overall understanding of diving. I don't feel you misled me at all. The good thing about these boards is the ability to share the information that literally hundreds of people will have about something. I think that the post by Rick Murchison is very much on target with the thinking PADI used to base their recommendations. Also the post by Dr. Deco about the Navy findings is quite interesting. I'm currently taking the NAUI rescue course and in their book cold water increases the likelihood of DCS. I guess the different viewpoints is what keeps life interesting.
Safe diving to all.
jbd
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