What is so overwhelming?

[Redshift]

The maths are not complicated, but they may not be immediate to understand, or better, to understand their meaning and what's being done.
And more than being complicated to the students, I think sometimes they may be complicated for the instructors. Many may also not have any education in maths / physics... they learned the formulas, can fill in the values to get the answers they need, but may not be able to explain to the students what they mean, translate the maths into words and translate the words of what the diver wants to know into a mathematica formula.

On the other hand, some agencies want to reach as many people as possible, even if that means making things easier. How easy can they get without becoming too incomplete? Why to show math formulas when there are tables with all the values? Why teach tables when everybody now has computers? Etc... I think that creates problems down the line. For the diver, that is, for the agencies, it only means more specialty courses to plug the holes open during the simplified courses.

 

[miked]

And more than being complicated to the students, I think sometimes they may be complicated for the instructors. Many may also not have any education in maths / physics... they learned the formulas, can fill in the values to get the answers they need, but may not be able to explain to the students what they mean, translate the maths into words and translate the words of what the diver wants to know into a mathematical formula.

In other words, there are people teaching the math involved in Diving, who are not Math teachers.

 

[Centrals]

Scuba diving is a RECREATIONAL sport, isn't it?
So where do Boyle's Law, Henry's Law, No Decompression Limit, Partial Pressure, Pressure Group etc etc come from?
A lot more complicated than bend your knees, lean forward and don't sit down in basic skiing.

 

[highdesert]

Scuba diving is a RECREATIONAL sport, isn't it?
So where do Boyle's Law, Henry's Law, No Decompression Limit, Partial Pressure, Pressure Group etc etc come from?
A lot more complicated than bend your knees, lean forward and don't sit down in basic skiing.

My own personal version of a buoyancy class:

Instructor: What happens when you throw a beach ball in the water?
Student: Well duhhh ... it floats!
Instructor: Now what happens when you throw a rock in the water?
Student: Well duhhh ... it sinks!
Instructor: Okay ... now what happens when you tie the beach ball and the rock together?
Student: Well duhhh ... it ... ummm ... Ooohhhh ... now I get it!
Instructor: Good! Now, what happens when you can change the size of the beach ball, and the size of the rock?
Student: Whoa ... cool, dude! Now I really get it!

End of buoyancy class.

Next topic, please!

 

[Redshift]

In other words, there are people teaching the math involved in Diving, who are not Math teachers.

They don't need to be, but they need to understand what the formulas mean and explain that to the students.

Scuba diving is a RECREATIONAL sport, isn't it?
So where do Boyle's Law, Henry's Law, No Decompression Limit, Partial Pressure, Pressure Group etc etc come from?
A lot more complicated than bend your knees, lean forward and don't sit down in basic skiing.

Are you saying that because it's recreational, none of that is needed and people should be able to turn off their brains?

 

[bracko]

as a degree qualified engineer I had a few problems with how they teach the technical aspects of the dive master course. they over simplify it making it (in my opinion) harder and less logical. I eventually went back to first principles for the physics and used the equations I used in physics and chemistry... the guys in my class didn't have that advantage and I unfortunately couldn't make sense of how PADI taught it without being long winded.

 

[Centrals]

Are you saying that because it's recreational, none of that is needed and people should be able to turn off their brains?

Plenty of recreational sports only need your active participation rather than scientific theorem!
You do need to turn off the brain if you are ski-jumping!!

 

[Redshift]

If that's what people want, they are free to choose on of those activities.

 

[victor]

The challenges are split into 2 parts Theory and Practical
Theory
For people without a maths/science/engineering background or left education many years ago it's the thought that scares them. That combined with instructors with similar issues and it is overwhelming. From memory for OW (over 20 years since I did this) there is little or no maths involved only some tables to fill in and use the tables. No real need to understand the theory but obviously better if you can.

Practical
Here I think for many the greatest challenges is breathing underwater without a mask. Most of us learned to swim at a young age and the mantra was 'don't breathe underwater' and how do you know you are underwater, there is water up your nose and in your eyes. Thus trained response is hold breath without the mask. My instructor overcame this with the snorkell, breathe through this and bend forward until your face is in the water and you are still breathing, only takes a few minutes and worked with those who had issues.
I like the rock tied to ballon analogy makes buoyancy obvious to most. Empty it sinks, add air, goes up, just floating in shallow end, move to deep end sinks, add more air, goes up. for ballon read BCD. Might be a bit of a fiddle to set up.

Before diving became a recreational sport the training was much more extensive, it took over a term at University 2 nights a week before we were allowed into the sea. Equipment failures were much more common. Deco theory was was taught as part of the OW classes. The science of gas absorbtion was in it's infanacy. Health and safety would have a heart attack today if you tried to replicate our pool training.

Or you could just buy the gear and go diving. :shocked2:

 

[captain]

The challenges are split into 2 parts Theory and Practical
Theory
For people without a maths/science/engineering background or left education many years ago it's the thought that scares them. That combined with instructors with similar issues and it is overwhelming. From memory for OW (over 20 years since I did this) there is little or no maths involved only some tables to fill in and use the tables. No real need to understand the theory but obviously better if you can.

Practical
Here I think for many the greatest challenges is breathing underwater without a mask. Most of us learned to swim at a young age and the mantra was 'don't breathe underwater' and how do you know you are underwater, there is water up your nose and in your eyes. Thus trained response is hold breath without the mask. My instructor overcame this with the snorkell, breathe through this and bend forward until your face is in the water and you are still breathing, only takes a few minutes and worked with those who had issues.
I like the rock tied to ballon analogy makes buoyancy obvious to most. Empty it sinks, add air, goes up, just floating in shallow end, move to deep end sinks, add more air, goes up. for ballon read BCD. Might be a bit of a fiddle to set up.

Before diving became a recreational sport the training was much more extensive, it took over a term at University 2 nights a week before we were allowed into the sea. Equipment failures were much more common. Deco theory was was taught as part of the OW classes. The science of gas absorbtion was in it's infanacy. Health and safety would have a heart attack today if you tried to replicate our pool training.

Or you could just buy the gear and go diving. :shocked2:[/QUOTE

As someone who did and believes scuba can be self taught the idea that you just buy the equipment and go diving is ridiculous. I bought the equipment but also the books and studied the principles of diving and the effects of pressure before I just went diving. Skiing is an activity that any fool knows how they can get hurt, hit a tree at 50 MPH. go sailing off a ledge. The dangers in scuba are a lot less obvious.