What should a DM do in this situation?

[Pugsly55]

The problem with sending a diver up alone is that the descent and the ascent are two of the most likely times during a dive to have a problem as is any other dynamic portion of the dive.

No one should "cut your dive short". You plan how the dive will be conducted which includes setting time and gas limits and you dive it that way. If the DM has a buddy he should stay with the buddy. Otherwise he isn't a buddy is he? If you aren't able to dive without a DM then you should go up too.

When I go somewhere with a buddy to dive, it is understood that both of us end the dive when either has a problem or is at the turn pressure. I have had the mentioned problem though when I go on vacation and go to dive "alone" (alone meaning my buddy is not diving that day and I am going to be assigned a buddy when I arrive at the boat, no I am not diving solo, though I have had assigned buddy dives turn into "solo" dives with a group). But, I think that running into a situation where I have to surface on my own is part of the risk I take when not going with a buddy to dive. I am not going to rely on my assigned buddy for jack, though I obviously will stick with them and assist if needed, and will surface with them. I think it is dangerous if you expect much in return of someone you don't know.

 

[MikeFerrara]

When I go somewhere with a buddy to dive, it is understood that both of us end the dive when either has a problem or is at the turn pressure. I have had the mentioned problem though when I go on vacation and go to dive "alone" (alone meaning my buddy is not diving that day and I am going to be assigned a buddy when I arrive at the boat, no I am not diving solo, though I have had assigned buddy dives turn into "solo" dives with a group). But, I think that running into a situation where I have to surface on my own is part of the risk I take when not going with a buddy to dive. I am not going to rely on my assigned buddy for jack, though I obviously will stick with them and assist if needed, and will surface with them. I think it is dangerous if you expect much in return of someone you don't know.

I guess I understand the problem but I haven't ever dived with an "assigned buddy".

I set myself up with a buddy and plan the dive or...

I'll dive with people I don't know but as soon as the dive gets goofy I'll end it the best way that I can.

The "follow the group around the reef" with loose, if any, buddy teams just isn't something that I would enjoy. I've seen enough of it to know that there isn't a fish or a coral that I want to see that bad. If I don't think I can rely on a buddy to be a buddy, it ends there.

Oh I can surface on my own well enough but that isn't the point.

 

[String]

To say that if you lack the skill to surface on your own you should not dive is a fallacy. Try telling that to a newbie who becomes accidentally separated from his/her buddy, and as he/she is trained, surfaces, skillfully or otherwise, to meet his/her buddy. If the ascent was unskillful and a runaway ascent is involved, should that person quit diving because they, at that moment, lacked the skills to surface safely on their own? Should an experienced husband/wife not dive with his/her lesser experienced wife/husband?
Rick

Even newbies should be able to do it, yes even on checkout dives. Its an absolutely VITAL skill that could be required any time. You should never be awarded a qualification without demonstrating you are clearly capable of this. Thats the issue here in the thread - qualified card carrying divers. If an agency/instructor certifies a diver that cant do this then serious questions should be asked.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Even newbies should be able to do it, yes even on checkout dives. Its an absolutely VITAL skill that could be required any time. You should never be awarded a qualification without demonstrating you are clearly capable of this. Thats the issue here in the thread - qualified card carrying divers. If an agency/instructor certifies a diver that cant do this then serious questions should be asked.

Surfacing alone is easy and it's what most divers seem to do. What I ask students to do is to ascend while staying with, and alert to, a buddy. It's much harder.

 

[pt40fathoms]

Surfacing alone is easy and it's what most divers seem to do. What I ask students to do is to ascend while staying with, and alert to, a buddy. It's much harder.

Buddy skills take the longest to teach new divers, require constant reminders durring the OW checkout dives, and are the first skill forgotten.

Sometimes it's like herding cats. We do the best we can, but it just doesn't seem to sink in for a few of them.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Buddy skills take the longest to teach new divers, require constant reminders durring the OW checkout dives, and are the first skill forgotten.

Sometimes it's like herding cats. We do the best we can, but it just doesn't seem to sink in for a few of them.

I agree to a point but all my students have to at least pretend to get it because on at least one of their 4 OW dives they'll be required to plan and conduct the dive without my help and on all dives (and even in the pool) they're required to look like a competant buddy.

So I guess I disagree with the herding cats part. We don't herd any one during training. They have to dive. Now, once they get to the resorts and get into the herd following the DM thing they might forget what we taught them but oh, well.

 

[pt40fathoms]

So I guess I disagree with the herding cats part. We don't herd any one during training. They have to dive. Now, once they get to the resorts and get into the herd following the DM thing they might forget what we taught them but oh, well.

We try not to herd anyone either, and for the most part we don't. However every year we get a couple of students who, well, just don't get it. You know the ones who wander off without warning. Scares the heck out of you, one second they are with you and the group, patiently waiting to demonstrate some skill, then you see them turn and head off to God knows where. For what reason they do this or a dozen other things, like taking their reg our of their mouths and staring at you, I will never understand. But you can bet folding money that when they travel to some vacation spot. Just as you said, they will forget just about everything they learned, and play follow the leader instead.

 

[Diver0001]

I agree to a point but all my students have to at least pretend to get it because on at least one of their 4 OW dives they'll be required to plan and conduct the dive without my help and on all dives (and even in the pool) they're required to look like a competant buddy.

So I guess I disagree with the herding cats part. We don't herd any one during training. They have to dive. Now, once they get to the resorts and get into the herd following the DM thing they might forget what we taught them but oh, well.

Very true, it's possible to teach buddy skills during an OW course and you can see when put together with a random group of beginners which divers had an instructor who gave a rat's-behind about teaching divers to dive and which ones had an instructor who had them all lined up on the bottom in a nice row waiting for their turn during the whole course. Obviously most divers eventually overcome the shortcomings in their training but as a DM in charge of a group of random beginners it happens often that you have divers in the group who do not meet the minimum skill levels as defined by yourself, Sting and others in this thread.

And don't forget, you are not a typical instructor and you don't produce typical students.

It would be very nice if everyone acted like a good buddy and could make nice controlled solo ascents and so forth but in my experience it's not wise to assume that a given diver can do this. I need to see someone in the water first to know what to expect from them. I've even had other DM's (this has happened twice) as buddies who I don't believe could make a controlled solo ascent after a buddy separation. One was was too blind to read his gauges and didn't have corrective lenses and the other gets all really stressed out when alone or when it's dark. And we don't need to hear that they shouldn't be DMs. They just are and that's the disconnect between theory and practice that working dive guides have to deal with every day.

Part of the problem to me seems to be some kind of vicious circle. DM's take care of divers who can't dive and divers can't dive because the DM is there to take care of them. A lot of DM's seem to enjoy this situation because it creates work and instructors do their part too assuming that since people will be diving with DM's anyway that they don't need to be trainecd to dive independently.

And that's not even touching on the ones who insist on diving solo or deliberately take off and abandon their buddies. It also doesn't cover the ones who make ligitimate mistakes or have equipment problems or get a big cramp or get stung/bitten/cut or are just having a bad day for one of any thousand reasons.

So in short I agree with pt40fathoms. The reality on the ground does often seem to resemble herding cats.

R..

 

[grazie42]

I think everyone who dives should be ABLE to make a solo-ascent (duh!). IMO PLANNING a solo-ascent is completely different and should never be done, and if so, not under the guise of buddy-diving. To me that is solo-diving and being able to se someone thru their entire ascent from 30m (or 12 for that matter) isn´t the same thing as being able to help them if something happens. A PLANNED solo-ascent, is to me, by definition a solo dive. Choosing wether to go solo or not is something every diver should decide by themselves but having one diver in a buddy-pair "changing the rules" under the surface is not acceptable to me (as the implicit agreement is that buddys aren´t solo-divers).

Changing buddies is, to me quite different, and in my view ok as long as everyone involved is clear and ok with the changes.

As for why people want DM´s with them during vacation dives?
For me anyways, the DM is there to guide me and help me get as much out of the dive as possible ie if there´s a special fish or veggie or route thru a wreck or... that I might otherwise miss and the DM talks about this in his briefing I may choose to follow him (with a buddy or with him as a buddy). If I follow him with a buddy then his roll will be that of a guide (for me) but if he is my buddy then I expect him to BE my buddy just as he has a right to expect the same of me.
This should hardly be a controversial oppinion should it?!

Just my 2 bubbles