Dectek
Guest
Look for your buddy for one minute then ascend?... hell...they both went down without buddies.
What would you have done?
- Thread starter chiara
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Look for your buddy for one minute then ascend?... hell...they both went down without buddies.
Something is wrong here. If the guide was there the entire time, s/he should have done something (and certainly not you, an ordinary paying customer). I know that helping out a fellow diver if there appears to be trouble is important but what is a guide for if s/he can't anticipate problems and sort it out. If the diver concerned was a beginner, the guide should have borne this in mind.
The procedure for buddy separation should have been discussed and agreed between the divers BEFORE the dive.
As for the buddy, how inconsiderate - to say the least.
The procedure for buddy separation should have been discussed and agreed between the divers BEFORE the dive.
As for the buddy, how inconsiderate - to say the least.
Communication is my big pet peeve. I have a slate ... on a retractor ... the surface of both sides is so scratched and warn that some marks don't come off. I'm thinking of investing in one of the Magic Writer type gizmos (or whatever they call it) where you just zip the bar and it pulls the magnetic material back.
I also follow the PADI Speciality called Sea Signs - it teaches you an adapted version of ASL for underwater usage. They teach the signs bare handed, 5 finger glove and dive mitten to make sure you can do all the signs in all environments.
The full-face mask underwater comm tools don't appeal to me but they are making great technical strides there too.
OP
I've been considering sign language for a while but never managed to get enough info on local courses.
Do you have any reference for books on Sea Signs?
That sounds like a great idea, supposing everyone else knows it as well. The problem with this scenario is that even if Chiara had known it, it's likely that a new diver wouldnt have. IMO, a slate or other written communication device would be a must.
Chiara: I commend you on looking after the solo diver. There are certain things that could have been handled differently (looking for his buddy, surfacing) but you took care of the immediate problem and kept this diver from becoming a satistic.
Good Job!
wb416
Contributor
What do you mean by a bit loopy at times??
Mr. Williams...while a good man in his own right spends way too much time at that quarry. He's a wonderful owner and has turned that place into a very good facility.
However, plenty of times I've camped there, usually something new happens. Here's one cout....oh you guys need a fire ring...let me run and get you one (around 2pm). Mike disappears...we see him running around doing all kinds of things throughout the day....10:15 rolls around and here he comes with our fire-ring....meanwhile we've built one out of rocks and such.
"Oh" he says..."that's a pretty good idea...never thought of setting up rocks for a ring" Now come on...who in their right mind has ever gone camping and not built a ring out of something other than an old cut-out rim. He then says..."you guys plannin on doing any night diving?"...mind you we've already got the gear hooked up, paid for the weekend of diving, have the cylums on the tanks and a lantern for "home base" ready to go, and spoke with him when we showed up that day about making a night dive. I say "yup sure are...we're just about ready to head on down"....Mike responds "Make sure you're out by midnight...I don't want people in the quarry later than that" As he pulls away on his 4-wheeler he asks if we need any firewood....and that it'd be on the houe b/c he never got us a fire-ring.....
It was just an odd experience...it was the end of a very long day for him. I can understand his being tired and wanted to make sure everything's o.k.....but damn man...rocks for a fire ring...who knew.
However, plenty of times I've camped there, usually something new happens. Here's one cout....oh you guys need a fire ring...let me run and get you one (around 2pm). Mike disappears...we see him running around doing all kinds of things throughout the day....10:15 rolls around and here he comes with our fire-ring....meanwhile we've built one out of rocks and such.
"Oh" he says..."that's a pretty good idea...never thought of setting up rocks for a ring" Now come on...who in their right mind has ever gone camping and not built a ring out of something other than an old cut-out rim. He then says..."you guys plannin on doing any night diving?"...mind you we've already got the gear hooked up, paid for the weekend of diving, have the cylums on the tanks and a lantern for "home base" ready to go, and spoke with him when we showed up that day about making a night dive. I say "yup sure are...we're just about ready to head on down"....Mike responds "Make sure you're out by midnight...I don't want people in the quarry later than that" As he pulls away on his 4-wheeler he asks if we need any firewood....and that it'd be on the houe b/c he never got us a fire-ring.....
It was just an odd experience...it was the end of a very long day for him. I can understand his being tired and wanted to make sure everything's o.k.....but damn man...rocks for a fire ring...who knew.
chiara here you go:
Click here for Seasigns link
They have videos, brochures, manuals, flash cards - stuff for kids and for the real specialty - approved by 4 or 5 major dive training organizations.
Cave Diver you miss the point. Dive with buddies you've reviewed communication with. Never dive with someone who has not reviewed beforehand your method of communication. Seasigns like PADI signs and those of other dive agencies has a minimum critical set of signs - it takes all of 15 minutes to learn.
I'm not patronizing, but for the benefit of anyone else that is reading ... never dive with someone who doesn't agree with you on the method and type of communication before diving - it's at the heart of the buddy system of recreational diving.
Click here for Seasigns link
They have videos, brochures, manuals, flash cards - stuff for kids and for the real specialty - approved by 4 or 5 major dive training organizations.
Cave Diver you miss the point. Dive with buddies you've reviewed communication with. Never dive with someone who has not reviewed beforehand your method of communication. Seasigns like PADI signs and those of other dive agencies has a minimum critical set of signs - it takes all of 15 minutes to learn.
I'm not patronizing, but for the benefit of anyone else that is reading ... never dive with someone who doesn't agree with you on the method and type of communication before diving - it's at the heart of the buddy system of recreational diving.
markb
Registered
I have seen (and been involved in) plenty of these kind of incidents when diving on day boats in Australia and Egypt. The problem is that we are not talking about a dive club outing where people know each other and know each others limits, what they look like in the water and use a mutually understood sign language. Rather we are talking about a bunch of people who usually have only a few logged dives, are using hire gear, sometimes only have English as a second language (or not at all) and who don't know each other from Adam. These people will not normally talk to each other on the boat - often due to being nervous of seeming like a complete newbie. When it comes to jumping in the divemaster will often buddy people up at the last minute. This means that two dive buddies who don't know each other will shy away from buddy checks and enter the water with a quick nod being the extent of their buddyness.
Add to that a dozen people flapping around on the shot line, wearing wetsuits that you don't recognise (sometimes all exactly the same from the hire depot), the wrong weight in their belts and you get the idea that this is not going to be the most orderly outing...
Diving - it's so simple at normal rec levels. And yet I've seen it become v scary v quickly. DMs thinking that everyone should have plenty of air left and belting along in front - with divers at the back vainly holding their five fingers up to show.......who?
DMs taking divers up early and then the rest of the group going off in all directions.
So CHIARA - you did exactly the right thing, even though it messed up one of your dives. I'm sure you would have felt a lot worse if there had been an accident that you felt you could have helped to avoid.
MASS-diver - you are right, diving on tourist boats can be awful. However, for a lot of us it is the only option when on a 2 week holiday and I would think that it is under these conditions where the majority of diving is done for a lot of people.
All I'm trying to say is that whenever you dive in a group you should take some responsibilty for the safety of that group. Even though you are only a paying punter and the DM or dive leader should be responsible.
I've cut short a few dives due to buddies being unfamiliar with their brand new BCDs and regs etc and after what I've said to them afterwards I don't think they will ever be my buddy on the surface - but I'd sooner that than be sat in the police station explaining exactly what happened when they ran out of air......
Happy diving!
Mark
Add to that a dozen people flapping around on the shot line, wearing wetsuits that you don't recognise (sometimes all exactly the same from the hire depot), the wrong weight in their belts and you get the idea that this is not going to be the most orderly outing...
Diving - it's so simple at normal rec levels. And yet I've seen it become v scary v quickly. DMs thinking that everyone should have plenty of air left and belting along in front - with divers at the back vainly holding their five fingers up to show.......who?
DMs taking divers up early and then the rest of the group going off in all directions.
So CHIARA - you did exactly the right thing, even though it messed up one of your dives. I'm sure you would have felt a lot worse if there had been an accident that you felt you could have helped to avoid.
MASS-diver - you are right, diving on tourist boats can be awful. However, for a lot of us it is the only option when on a 2 week holiday and I would think that it is under these conditions where the majority of diving is done for a lot of people.
All I'm trying to say is that whenever you dive in a group you should take some responsibilty for the safety of that group. Even though you are only a paying punter and the DM or dive leader should be responsible.
I've cut short a few dives due to buddies being unfamiliar with their brand new BCDs and regs etc and after what I've said to them afterwards I don't think they will ever be my buddy on the surface - but I'd sooner that than be sat in the police station explaining exactly what happened when they ran out of air......
Happy diving!
Mark
DiverBuoy YOU miss the point. The diver in her story was NOT one of her *planned* dive buddies. Even if she had (and probably did) reviewed communications with her dive buddy, that wouldnt have helped this situation. This diver came to her from "out of the blue." Unless of course you are advocating that you review your communication with EVERYONE on the boat? Or perhaps you are advocating that since one should "never dive with someone who has not reviewed beforehand your method of communication" that she should have just told him to shove off without offering assistance.????
I agree that hand signals/sign language is a good tool. However, in the event that you run across a diver that you don't know, those signals might be of no use whatsoever. In a case like this, a slate, or wetnotes would still be the best alternative.
If you go back and read my original post you will see that I agreed with the idea underwater communication via signals. But I also stated that in this particular situation written communication would have likely been more effective.
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