When are you ready for cavern training?

[Karen18]

Thanks, Kotik. It's good to hear that. I met Marissa and spoke with her briefly at Ginnie; I got a good feeling about her and I'm excited to dive with her... and progress toward cavern and caves.

---------- Post added September 8th, 2013 at 05:22 PM ----------

PfcAJ -- I've made that mistake before: walking into a random shop and signing up. That was the history of my OW training, and I won't make that mistake again. Since Cave Country is 2 1/2 hours from me, asking you guys (the experts) here on ScubaBoard is my way of vicariously doing research.

 

[kotik]

Okay then. I'd definitely second the suggestion to do research. Without a doubt there's some less-than-ideal instruction to be had there as well.

Here's a short article about choosing an instructor, written by Jim Wyatt.

Choosing a Cave Instructor

It's written toward choosing a cave instructor, but I think it applies pretty well generally and could give you some useful tips. I'll say again, how you mesh with an instructor is an important part of the equation: teaching style and personality compatibility can make a big difference in what you get out of it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Okay then. I'd definitely second the suggestion to do research. Without a doubt there's some less-than-ideal instruction to be had there as well.

Here's a short article about choosing an instructor, written by Jim Wyatt.

Choosing a Cave Instructor

It's written toward choosing a cave instructor, but I think it applies pretty well generally and could give you some useful tips. I'll say again, how you mesh with an instructor is an important part of the equation: teaching style and personality compatibility can make a big difference in what you get out of it.

I agree with this quite a bit, and although I read Jim's article about choosing an instructor before I chose him, I think that when you get into cave training, there is even more to it than he suggests.

The meshing of personalities includes especially their approach toward the errors you will inevitably make. Some instructors are famous for their ability to curse at you with great color and vigor. Many people like that kind of pressure. Others don't. Other instructors are much more gentle in their corrections.

You should also carefully check out the agency standards--not so much for just the cavern diving level, but for the whole program should you decide to pursue it. Many are very much the same, but some are quite different in what is required.

 

[divad]

The DIR crowd on the board will naturally steer any topic about training to the subject of Fundamentals, this is understandable and to be expected.

The OP steered the topic to the "subject of Fundamentals."

 

[Karen18]

It's true, I did.

 

[divad]

Now look what you've done.

 

[ucfdiver]

So if she took the PADI AOW and Rescue Diver classes offered at Extreme Exposure, she would be taught by a Goon Platoon. If when she was finished she stayed with Extreme Exposure and took the GUE Fundamentals course there as well, then Extreme Exposure would bring out the real instructors for that course--is that how it works? It must be tough on the morale of the staff, with some of them being on the Goon Platoon and some of them being on the real instructional staff.

BTW, I believe GUE Fundamentals is an excellent course, and a diver will learn a lot from it. I would just like to remind people that other agencies have similar classes.

I would feel more comfortable suggesting someone take GUE Fundies not knowing what instructors they have access to, than I would to suggest they take any PADI course not knowing what instructors they have access to. You don't see Police units run by animal shelters looking for police dogs-- they go to breeders because the quality is consistent, knowing there are likely several shelter dogs who could serve the police dog role very well.

My Fiancee is taking her OW class and I'm having her go the GUE Rec 1 route vs PADI OW even though the course will be hosted (in part) at EE who offers both. That's because I feel the GUE curriculum sets the diver up for greater success than what I've seen elsewhere. I don't believe that Jarrod J. could teach a great OW class in a single weekend for $350. These skills take time that most OW classes simply don't have-- sure there are some exceptions such as Lynee and Peter running DIR like PADI courses, but now we're talking about people running classes almost as a community service rather than an occupation.

PS-- EE has instructors on staff who can teach PADI rescue that cannot teach Rec 1 or Fundies via GUE. I'm not saying they're bad instructors (actually I recommended one of them for a non GUE cave instructor often), but GUE's vetting process is much more strict. I suppose the flip side to that is there are likely very good instructors who don't have the funds to become GUE instructors due to this process, and that's one downside.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

My thoughts go this way..............The less bad habits a person has mastered the better suited they are to learn things that really make them a better diver. While it is true you don't want to pay someone to teach good skills, you don't know what you don't know so it may be money well spent. Advance open water should be Open Water II as it goes a bit more in-depth on the things you quickly learned in open water. It in no way makes you an advanced diver. Like Kevin I'm not a GUE person but PfcAJ is on the money. The classes offered are so in tune for new divers who have not developed and mastered the run of the mill recreational diving skills that are made to the masses. I personally feel the sooner a person can take cavern, or fundies, etc, the better aware and more skilled diver they will be.

On my PD Dive team I have had better results with the guys who had OW and a few dives than ones who had developed and become proficient with kneeling, standing, kicking up the bottom, etc. Frog kicking, good trim, etc area easily taught and learned this way.

My 2 cents.

 

[Karen18]

Thanks, and I agree. I'm going to take AOW in a few weeks with Marissa. I'll see how I do with that, and then I'll likely take a GUE Primer course, nail down the skills before I move on to cavern. Neither Meredith nor Doug teach the primer course; does anybody know anyone who does?

---------- Post added September 9th, 2013 at 09:36 PM ----------

ps. Sorry for all the questions, and I appreciate the help.

 

[lv2dive]

Thanks, and I agree. I'm going to take AOW in a few weeks with Marissa. I'll see how I do with that, and then I'll likely take a GUE Primer course, nail down the skills before I move on to cavern. Neither Meredith nor Doug teach the primer course; does anybody know anyone who does?

---------- Post added September 9th, 2013 at 09:36 PM ----------

ps. Sorry for all the questions, and I appreciate the help.

Karen - one of the things that can be confusing about GUE courses is that a lot of them are taught on demand vs. scheduled and signed up for. Both Meredith and Doug do teach primer (I confirmed with Meredith just now) so although it may look as though neither of them is teaching primer, if you contact them, they may be able to put something together for you and another student. I will PM you their email addresses or you can find them on the GUE website.