When drills become thrills - incident caught on video

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Y'know, looking back over the comments and such . . . Here's a flame.

YOU did not react appropriately to a problem. It was as if you did not recognize that you HAD a real problem. It was not just YOUR gas you blew through, it was your buddy's emergency supply, and you didn't understand that -- I say this because if you did, you would have made a big F'ing stink about it!

That is a failure of judgement. You should be worried.
 
Why did you feel the need to do a safety stop after such a short dive?

You had a freeflowing reg - empty main, I suspect serious demand on a pony reg in cold water and a buddy with a freeflowing inflator. A very short not very deep dive with a reasonably slow ascent rate.


To my mind staying two minutes at safety stop depth and arriving at the surface with no air added significantly more risk to the dive than a direct ascent would have. Had you been down for significantly longer then perhaps you might have stopped for as long as your pony had air, but in this case I believe a direct ascent was the safer option.

How was thumbing the dive part of the exercise you contemplated?

Not clear on why your buddy thought this was part of the exercise. Even if it was - thumbing the dive means you start to the surface right now. He should have started to ascend until you called it off.

All easy to critique here on the surface so just questions to think about for next time.
 
All I can say is - thanks for sharing this. I am learning a ton!
 
Glad you both made it okay - this was potentially a very bad scenario.

First off, what is the water temperature in the lake? In very low water temperatures, freeflows are common. You had a strategy for a freeflow -- you had a pony. But your buddy, although carrying far more gas, had no strategy, because he could not reach his valves, and he did not tutor you in how to assist him before you dove together.

Second, this is a lake, right? Why are you doing a hand-over-hand descent down the line, which requires that you and your buddy be at different depths, and therefore makes it far more difficult for each of you to see the other or understand what is going on with him? If you had done a descent facing one another, at the same depth, the freeflow would likely have been immediately obvious to Ian.

Third, Jax makes a very good point about communication in the dark. No one can see hand signals well unless the hand is illuminated. (This is another reason for being able to do the descent without hanging onto anything.) But you did have a light, and a rapid, urgent light signal, persisting, should be a good indication to any buddy that something is very wrong -- which is really what you needed to convey to Ian.

I believe the standard Aluminum 80 is a 12 liter tank, right? So a 3l should have been about 20 cubic feet of gas. At 15 meters, that should have given you enough gas to get to the surface easily, even if you wanted to make a stop. Did you consider switching to the pony immediately, and getting Ian to turn off the main tank? You probably would have saved significant gas, reduced your stress level, and after a minute or so, if this was temperature-related, the first stage may well have thawed enough to use again. But you'd have been on the way to the surface on your pony, anyway.

The point about being familiar with one another's gear, and somebody being able to understand a manifold and do shutdowns if necessary, has already been made.

Again, glad you both came back safe.
 
Hi All,

It is going to be difficult to reply to each question individually, but I will try at some point in the future. I am heartened by your insights and thoughts on this, they really do seem to be constructive rather than just pure criticism.

Trust me, Ian and I had a long chat about the incident after the dive - and yes we really have learnt a lot through our own mistakes, and now we're learning even more by your observations. So do keep them coming, no matter how harsh your thoughts may seem. We want to learn :wink:

Kind Regards
Bill
 
WOW that was incredible. A freeflow at 60 feet!.

I would not have touched the line on descent, unless it was my intent to screw up the visibility.
I would have stuck that freeflowing regulator under my good buddy's chin. You don't need to signal anything, just rattle the crap out of his head for 5 seconds and it should get his attention.
I also would have waited (a little) for the buddy to clear the tangle of loose rope on the bottom.. THAT is dangerous.
I would have signaled to ascend and begun the ascent and not touched the vertical rope... Why touch the rope and further screw up the visibility?
I doubt I would have dropped the freeflowing regulator and allow it to flail around behind my back... THAT could get entangled in the rope on ascent and make a real problem, especailly if you chose to ascend up a line with know entanglement hazards.
I would have just added a little air in my BC and gently floated, I would never have done a safety stop on such a short and shallow exposure.
I found the comments about being unable to share air with your buddy as really scary.... You guys are diving fancy tech rigs with double tanks and can't buddy breath off a single (pony) regulator? Seriously, that didn't occur to you even when making the video?
I also found the comment about being worried about surface floatation because your primary tank was empty as also a little scary.
Lastly, thank goodness you guys made it! Another good example where a pony bottle made things a lot safer.
 
People have seemed to hint at it but I will say it - this dive was a genuine CF from the beginning - poor planning, no communication, poor skill demonstrated on descent, no comm skills, lack of equipment management, very poor even dangerous decision making. The fact that this was a training dive for dive leadership is scary by the time someone is in a dive leadership level skills should be much better and decision making should be also be better. I would maybe be rethinking if you are truly ready for dive leadership.
 
People have seemed to hint at it but I will say it - this dive was a genuine CF from the beginning - poor planning, no communication, poor skill demonstrated on descent, no comm skills, lack of equipment management, very poor even dangerous decision making. The fact that this was a training dive for dive leadership is scary by the time someone is in a dive leadership level skills should be much better and decision making should be also be better. I would maybe be rethinking if you are truly ready for dive leadership.

Hi Japan-Diver,

We're both keen to learn from this event - your post is saying that our problems are much bigger than the single incident. We'd find it very useful if you could expand on each of the points you raise so that we can make it a learning experience?

poor planning
please expand?

no communication
the video doesn't do justice to just how dark (think white balance) it is down there. Trust me it is pitch black. Comms are difficult at the best of times.

poor skill demonstrated on descent
If you're more specific we could learn from it - but from vague statements we can't.

no comm skills
yes, poor comms is an area we already identified. But bear in mind we were in a very difficult environment.

lack of equipment management
this I'm struggling to understand, you really will have to expand on this for me?

very poor even dangerous decision making
So that everyone here can learn from this (me included), I think it would be useful if you could explain why you think so. Sometimes specifics are useful.

Kind Regards
Bill
 
I would have stuck that freeflowing regulator under my good buddy's chin. You don't need to signal anything, just rattle the crap out of his head for 5 seconds and it should get his attention.

Really? Why would you waste time getting to your buddy, placing a free flowing reg under his or chin? Don't you think that they may think that they have a free flow and distract them from the real problem at hand. Remember, this is dark water.
 
Really? Why would you waste time getting to your buddy, placing a free flowing reg under his or chin? Don't you think that they may think that they have a free flow and distract them from the real problem at hand. Remember, this is dark water.

They were on the bottom for like 60 seconds...The guy is oblivious to the freeflow. If he was not getting it, I would have blasted him with bubbles, and then shown him my reg freeflowing...Can't think of a more obvious and clear cut signal.. although blasting his mask loose while he is flailing around in the dark on a mud bottom surrounded by loose line, might be a problem.. :D:D
 
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