Where did I get wrong ?

[ZenSquirrel]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...

Well, I'm an instructor and the few times over 7+ yrs. that I've had a student panic in the open water they grabbed my Octo. I've never had my primary grabbed at. But it's Nice of DIR guys to reinforce grabbing it in the rec world!

Fair enough. I've also heard this used as justification for the integrated power inflator/octo (Air2, AirSource, etc). "They" say that people just grab the primary and you end up switching to your alternate anyway.

*shrug*

For the record, I'm not DIR and I dive a regular primary with a regular octo.

 

[AliKat]

I worked with 2 different instructors when I was doing my DM. One taught his OW students the person needing the air should take the Octo from the donor. The other instructor taught that the donor should hand the octo off. These were both PADI instructors. What I learned from this is when diving with a new buddy, before getting the water, I will ask their preference. So, we will both know ahead time, just in case.

Are you DIR? Was this discussed before the two of you got in the water?

 

[adder70]

MonkSeal once bubbled...


I asked him later what was wrong and he told me he forgot everything because he was focused to my octo's yellow cap.

The only possible suspect thing you did was to have the wrong reg with a yellow cap. My OW/cavern/intro training left it open to the individual whether to breathe from the long hose or hang it, but we were taught to make sure the donated reg had the bright cap on it to alert the needy diver of the proper reg. So if you want to donate your primary, I would put a bright cap on it and a dark cap on the octo.

Still, that is a tiny thing. You told him which you would supply to him and you did everything else very well, as stated by many others here.

 

[adder70]

I had 4 different instructors from 3 agencies in my training, and I don't recall any insisting on handing off either my primary or the octo. I remember being told to expect to lose either, and that often divers will simply grab for whatever reg they can reach, leaving you to grab your alternate if necessary, and to switch regs again once they have caught their breath. (You might need to switch again if they got the short hose and you have to follow a line or pass any sort of restriction.)

 

[HMCS Canuck]

From my recollection, my PADI instructor specified octopus, and pointed out that it may in fact be yellow. He also mentioned that it was part of your pre-dive briefing to specify what the donors preference is.

I would prefer to take the Octo only from a dental hygene perspective, but I would hope that I would be calm and alert enough in that scenario to accept what ever air is offered and not try to get into an arguement with NO AIR!!!! lol lol

Anyway bro, I think you recieved full marks from just about everyone posting here....with some very interesting discussion and points that I wouldn't have thought of....GOOD TOPIC

 

[paulwlee]

I agree with some posts that if you have a yellow second stage, it should be the one you are going to donate. I can see how an OOA diver can fixate on a yellow second stage. It's just a very strong visual cue, one that has been reinforced for a long time.

I recently switched to using the long hose, and since my octo was the same second stage (Atomic Ti2) with a yellow cover, I just used that as my primary and switched my old (black) primary to the bungeed backup. I think the yellow visual cue will be stronger than any programmed knowledge that one should reach for the octo, even in situations where the OOA diver completely forgets about the info given to him/her before the dive.

 

[MonkSeal]

HMCS Canuck once bubbled...
Quick question (no judgement, because at this stage who wants this idiot on a short line) but if he was so fixated on your Octopus then why not give it to him?

I couldn't pull it over my head because I was holding my primary with one hand and I was holding him with the other.

Please tell me the DM suspended him from diving with your club until he did at least one check out dive??

Yes, he did.

 

[MonkSeal]

AliKat once bubbled...
I worked with 2 different instructors when I was doing my DM. One taught his OW students the person needing the air should take the Octo from the donor. The other instructor taught that the donor should hand the octo off. These were both PADI instructors. What I learned from this is when diving with a new buddy, before getting the water, I will ask their preference. So, we will both know ahead time, just in case.

Are you DIR? Was this discussed before the two of you got in the water?

No, I'm not DIR. Yes, it was discussed before dive and day before, as I wrote above.

 

[MonkSeal]

adder70 once bubbled...
I had 4 different instructors from 3 agencies in my training, and I don't recall any insisting on handing off either my primary or the octo. I remember being told to expect to lose either, and that often divers will simply grab for whatever reg they can reach, leaving you to grab your alternate if necessary, and to switch regs again once they have caught their breath. (You might need to switch again if they got the short hose and you have to follow a line or pass any sort of restriction.)

I was also taught different ways from SSI and NAUI and trained several scenarios (including buddy breathing). But from psychological point of view I think that donating working reg (i.e. the one you just pull from your mouth) should calm down OOA diver.

 

[USMC Diver]

MonkSeal once bubbled...


I asked him later what was wrong and he told me he forgot everything because he was focused to my octo's yellow cap.

That is exactly what I was saying. THE YELLOW OCT is what 99% of divers are trained INITIALLY to look for. When he saw it around your i am sure he was focused on getting it from your neck. He didn't go for the reg in your mouth because it was already out of you r mouth. In the confusion with all the bubbles and panic I am sure all he could focus on was the octo's yellow cap. When things didn't happen as his training taught him, panic and tunnel vision increase. You should definetly change the color of your Neck back up.

Which is why I said that the DIR (or those who set up their rig utilizing the Hogarthian method) divers need to inform the non-DIR and the divers who use a standard gear config what the deal is with their gear. What is different, what to do in case of OOA emergency, things like that..

However, initial training is also the foundation for instinctive reaction. It is somewhat dangerous to mix training disciplines and expect people to react a certain way without proper Buddy training and proper predive briefs and planning. These are an absolute must for cross discipline and agency training. I have probably dived with every different type of diving discipline and agency there is (or not) in the past 14 yearsof diving, 7 as a Military Diver, 4 as a Military Dive Instructor. Not everyone knows to go for the primary reg and not the bright yellow one sitting right in front of my eyes, around your neck, not being used.

It does sound as if you did everything you could except for a more thorough pre-dive. I think he was just an Idiot that will be dead next week if not this one. I am a firm believer in proper training or at least (in this case) a good orientation brief. I would buddy with you. Your average buddy given from a boat or whatever wouldn’t know 90% of the things you spoke of or did.

Good job and good luck.