Where did I get wrong ?

[Karl_in_Calif]

I use my old yellow octo for my pony bottle.

Dont mind if anyone grabs for that one.

 

[Scuba]

MonkSeal, what a great post with so many lessons in it! And a happy ending.

Allow me to dissect it. Much of what I am about to say is in retrospect after the fact. Some are simple rules that we so easily brake. But they are something we can all implement if we set our minds to it and change our mindset.

I was buddied with inexperienced diver.

You don't state the reason why the DM entrusted this inexperienced diver to you. This scenerio is not all that uncommon in general. Usually nothing major occurs and more experienced divers will think nothing of accepting such responsability without asking themselves a simple question. - I'm I willing, ready and capable of handling a worse case scenario?

He claimed he was experienced enough but without recent dives. He took a video camera with himself "to shoot a few sequences". Divemaster asked me to keep an eye on him because he surfaced from 10m without safety stop on dive day before. Plan was to dive at 20m for 30min (two of us) and the rest of divers were supposed to go to 35m

Diver admitted to being a little rusty from inactivity. The dive plan to 20m for 30 min. suitably conforms to get some of the rust out of a diver who claims experience enough. What kind of experience? Under what conditions? How long ago?

Is the camera a new gear addition or part of his normal past experience? Keep it simple when tunning up. Granted he dove the day before. If the camera is an add-on he flunked the test to carry it the day before as he skipped the presumably non mandatory deco stop. Regardless, after this incident, which reading between the lines was not planned and intentional, subsequent dive should concentrate on tunning old skills without additional task loading that a camera presents.

Why did he skip "safety stop"? Answer could provide much valuable information.

He wasn't able to maintain buoyancy and I trimmed him and calm him down and warned him about air consumption (which was enormous - we started with 200bar, after 10min he was at 100bar).

Thumbs up. Time to call the dive. Never an easy thing to do. In my opinion every pre dive buddy check should mention the right of any diver to call the dive at any time forcing the other(s) to immediately and completely acquiesce on this request unless there is another agreed to prior arrangement.

At least a move to very shallow and near exit point would be advisable if attempting to save some of the dive - if everything goes right from now on. An option you appear to have not have. Although, I think this would really be unwise given that the rest of the dive will probably be spent closely monitoring your buddy. When you consider that an emergency situation such as panic can have tragic results for all involved even in five feet of water, or on the surface for that matter, the risk is probably not worth it.

Suddenly he emptied his jacket and descended to 40m "to shoot from the other angle". I descended also and brought him slowly back to 25m. Than I realized he would be OOA in few minutes. I informed DM we were going out and we started to ascend. I knew that we had a deco obligation because of his trip to 40m but I had enough air. As we reached 18m he signalized he was OOA. I was little surprised because I expected this would happen in few minutes but I took my primary (long hose) and tried to put in his mouth. At the same time I emptied a little bit my jacket, grab him and made us neutral.

I'm going to assume you immediately went after him in order to stop his descent and start surfacing, and caught him at 40m. Here you probably saved him from injury, and quite possibly his life.

He grabbed regulator and then left it floating and tried to grab my bungeed octo. Of course he couldn't reach it and then he panicked. I tried to calm him down but he started to strangle me. All that time I was trying to put my primary to his mouth and he was refusing it trying to get my octo. After one long minute of struggle I succeeded and I finally grab my octo and started to breath.

When panic sets in all common sense disappears. Only instinctive reactions take place. Regulator color has been mentioned. Another consideration is the length of the bungied octo hose. While its short length presents certain advantages. we should also be very aware of its disadvantages. Its extremely difficult to share with another diver and can increase complications when diving with divers who are trained to grab the octo, as this example clearly demonstrates.

At that moment I thought "Everything is under control, again". But it wasn't. He kicked and went up. I emptied my jacket completely and grab his camera (attached to his jacket) and tired to descend. But he was fining up. When we reached 5m (in less then 30s) I let him go because I couldn't stop him any more. He surfaced immediately and boat crew lifted him up

Primary survival instinct was to breath, which he did. Definitely still on edge at this point. Secondary survival instinct was to extricate himself from this situation.

Question:

Where did I get wrong ? Before this dive I was sure I could handle such situation because I had similar case before and solved it with no problems.

Answer:

I looked at my Mosquito - 5 min of deco. After I finished it (I added 2min more at 3m and last 3m 1min), I surfaced - he was on O2. Captain contacted DAN and they advised O2, hydration and observing. After two hours no DCS signs were shown and he seemed OK.

Don't know if you had the opportunity to conduct a debriefing with him after the dive, and did so.

Overall you did much more right than wrong. Its not anyday or any diver that you can fend off a panicked diver attempting to strangle you, and in the process manage to save both your lives. True tests come when things don't go according to plan - when the unexpected happens.

MonkSeal, I don't know if this buddy thanked you afterwards. I don't think he even knew what his responsibities as a buddy where. You clearly take yours seriously and go beyond what many consider adequate. I like to thank you for what you did for him. We all dive for the rewards our own selfish reasons provide us. What can be more rewarding than a dive where you quite likely saved someones life?

This is one of those very special dives with so many tales to tell!

Thank you for sharing.

 

[MonkSeal]

Scuba once bubbled...
You don't state the reason why the DM entrusted this inexperienced diver to you.

Probably he thought I was able to handle unexpected situations.

Diver admitted to being a little rusty from inactivity. The dive plan to 20m for 30 min. suitably conforms to get some of the rust out of a diver who claims experience enough. What kind of experience? Under what conditions? How long ago?

He had two dives three weeks ago and one dive day before. Before that he hasn't dived for several years.

Is the camera a new gear addition or part of his normal past experience?

He dived with that camera three weeks ago. On a dive day before he didn't carry it.

Why did he skip "safety stop"? Answer could provide much valuable information.

Because he wasn't able to maintain his buoyancy.

I'm going to assume you immediately went after him in order to stop his descent and start surfacing, and caught him at 40m. Here you probably saved him from injury, and quite possibly his life.

Yes, I immediately went for him but it took me few minutes to start ascending (to force him stop shooting, made him neutral and start slow ascend).

I don't know if this buddy thanked you afterwards.

He thanked me when he was off O2. But day after I spoke to his instructor and she told me that guy hadn't been so worried about it.

 

[Diver0001]

MonkSeal once bubbled...
Yesterday I was buddied with inexperienced diver. He claimed he was experienced enough but without recent dives. He took a video camera with himself "to shoot a few sequences". Divemaster asked me to keep an eye on him because he surfaced from 10m without safety stop on dive day before. Plan was to dive at 20m for 30min (two of us) and the rest of divers were supposed to go to 35m. He wasn't able to maintain buoyancy and I trimmed him and calm him down and warned him about air consumption (which was enormous - we started with 200bar, after 10min he was at 100bar). Suddenly he emptied his jacket and descended to 40m "to shoot from the other angle". I descended also and brought him slowly back to 25m. Than I realized he would be OOA in few minutes. I informed DM we were going out and we started to ascend. I knew that we had a deco obligation because of his trip to 40m but I had enough air. As we reached 18m he signalized he was OOA. I was little surprised because I expected this would happen in few minutes but I took my primary (long hose) and tried to put in his mouth. At the same time I emptied a little bit my jacket, grab him and made us neutral. He grabbed regulator and then left it floating and tried to grab my bungeed octo. Of course he couldn't reach it and then he panicked. I tried to calm him down but he started to strangle me. All that time I was trying to put my primary to his mouth and he was refusing it trying to get my octo. After one long minute of struggle I succeeded and I finally grab my octo and started to breath. At that moment I thought "Everything is under control, again". But it wasn't. He kicked and went up. I emptied my jacket completely and grab his camera (attached to his jacket) and tired to descend. But he was fining up. When we reached 5m (in less then 30s) I let him go because I couldn't stop him any more. He surfaced immediately and boat crew lifted him up. I looked at my Mosquito - 5 min of deco. After I finished it (I added 2min more at 3m and last 3m 1min), I surfaced - he was on O2. Captain contacted DAN and they advised O2, hydration and observing. After two hours no DCS signs were shown and he seemed OK. Where did I get wrong ? Before this dive I was sure I could handle such situation because I had similar case before and solved it with no problems.

What do you mean, what did you get wrong? Rescuing a panicked diver is the hardest thing to do in diving. Instead of focussing on what could have been better I'd like to first point out to you what you did right:

- You adjusted your dive plan to suit the capabilities of this diver

- Your choice of maximum depth was good

- You had an idea of his pressure during the whole dive (he probably did not)

- You recognised that his buoyancy control was crap and you helped him trim and stay calm and continued to do so even when the poop was flying.

- You went and saved him from his death at 40m. If you hadn't gotten him he would have ran out of air and died. You recognised he was a danger to himself and initiated a rescue, taking the risk yourself of entering an unplanned deco situation.

- You even took the time to inform the DM that you were leaving the water with him!

- You kept your wits about you when he panicked and you kept at it until he was breathing again!!!

- You attempted to control the ascent rate and buoyancy even with a panicked diver dragging your to the surface in a deco situation.

- You let him go when you realised his ascent couldn't be stopped any more

- You didn't follow him out of the water once you realised that the crew had him. You did your deco and avoided making a bad situation worse

In my mind that's a 5-star rescue!

Now the arm-chair QB part:

- I might have kept him to 18 metres instead of 25. That's a judgement call but it probably wouldn't have changed things much.

- You should recognise that the long-hose/bungie octo configuration is not what most divers are expecting. It would have been in your best interest to have discussed this with him before getting in the water.

- I personally would have aborted the dive aftre the 40 metre stint and initiated deco-ing out. I don't know why you took him back to 25 metres but that left a bit of a question mark in my mind.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

USMC Diver once bubbled...
<snip>

I would have left him at 40m myself. Dumbass broke the dive plan. That is not your fault. I guess he was DIW to your DIR.

And he would have run out of air and died.

Without getting too snotty about it, it should be pointed out that the ability and commitment to recognise an emergency and act on it saves lives. This particular Darwin candidate was very lucky that he had an excellent buddy with him that day. Let's hope his next buddy is as good.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...


Well, I'm an instructor and the few times over 7+ yrs. that I've had a student panic in the open water they grabbed my Octo. I've never had my primary grabbed at. But it's Nice of DIR guys to reinforce grabbing it in the rec world!

I have. I've done it. I'll spare you the story but we had 4 working regs between us and I took the one in his mouth. I had the presence of mind to actually signal OOA and ask him for it but it doesn't change the fact that that's the one I focused on.

As for "reinforcing grabbing it". With all due respect, you should know better. You can't change reality by wishing it were otherwise and therefore your students need to be trained for either case. An OOA diver is going to "secure a working regulator". That's what they're are trained to do. In PADI we still teach them to look for the octo but if they don't see it right away they'll grab whatever they can find.

You know that.

You also know that not everyone acts the same way under stress and there is a very real "danger" regardless of what is taught, that you'll have to give up your primary.

If there is one thing to be learned from MonkSeal's experience it's to not bungie a yellow octopus and to discuss OOA protocol before the dive.

R..

 

[SeaJay]

You gave us a scenario, and asked us what you did wrong.

It's been pointed out thoroughly that your actions were excellent.

There is some truth that better preparations could have been made regarding dive briefing and making sure that your backup is black, with your primary optionally yellow.

...But while that might have aided this particular situation, these suggestions don't in and of themselves provide a solution to the problem.

Let's define the problem... The problem is *not* that your buddy was OOA. The problem is *not* that your buddy bolted to the surface. The problem is *not* that you had varying degrees of success in saving is a$$ (didn't prevent his rapid ascent, but you definitely helped save his butt). The problem is *not* that you weren't able to control his actions (descent to 40m, followed by a rapid acsent). The problem is *not* that you weren't able to convince him during your underwater argument about air. (WTF?? What OOA diver argues about air?)

These are all symptoms of the problem, Monk. "Better preparation before the dive" offers a resolve to the symptom, not the problem. "A different colored backup" offers a resolve to the symptom, not the problem, too.

...So can anyone guess what the *problem* here was?

If you identify that, you'll then be able to assess what, exactly, you could have done to prevent the problem. Remember to change the things you can, accept the things you can't, and strive for the wisdom to know the difference.

You can NOT control your buddy, nor do you want that responsibility.

 

[Raven C]

USMC Diver once bubbled...
He was refusing your primary because he was trained to use an octo. Therein lies the danger of you DIR guys infiltrating into the world of rec. This guy was trying to get to the octo and, while in panic mode, was focused on your back up octo around your neck.

What the *&#$ is that!

This is NOT and let me repeat NOT the "danger of you DIR guys." I feel like B!tch slappin' you into reality. This is the DANGER of no pre-dive discussions about gear configurations, lack of training, lack of experience, no communicating what to do in case of???? OMG I am gonna have to find someone to whip just to get this out and it's gonna be all your fault. (LOL) Your comments below are much better than that BS above.

Did you go over this in your pre-dive? Isn't that part of pre-dive, orient to your buddies gear? You should have communicated your gear confuguration to this idiot. Proper buddy communication may have alleviated that problem.

Your comment here

I would have left him at 40m myself. Dumbass broke the dive plan. That is not your fault. I guess he was DIW to your DIR.

is where the danger lies. Looking at your board name one would reason that you are a Marine. I know that the Marines train better than that. What happened? Marines aren't trained to leave a "man" behind. R

(She steps out for a breath of fresh air thinking OMG there are more of these people running loose in the world.)