Why are we so mean?
- Thread starter TSandM
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The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Lynn,
I don't think that this is a DIR phenomenon, as much as its a part of the Tech Diver community. Its apparent that some tech divers feel that the only way for divers to properly learn is through verbal abuse. The funny part is that most instructors aren't this way with a few notable exceptions. Anyone who has done any research into learning KNOWS that anger is the enemy of instruction. Too many people think that being harsh somehow shows that they have high standards. No, harsh and insensitive comments only show that you are unable to communicate on a meaningful level. There have been a few times where I was bemused to see a fairly vocal person with "less than optimal" skills. Could I call them out? Sure, but its above my pay grade. I don't think its good to fight fire with fire and I have my own standards of gentility and fairness to reach/uphold.
In the final analysis, I feel that that people put down others to feel superior. It doesn't require that they really demonstrate that superiority... just that they adequately verbally assault anyone who thinks/dives/feels differently than they do.
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Devon... At the end of the day the question that needs to be answered is...did the course member achieved the written course standards? If the answer is yes, then it means that the individual is safe and proficient, therefore graduation is rightfully his.
So as long as what you refer to falls within the written course standard then I have no problem. If it does not then it is simply an ''ism'' and the student should not be penalized for it.
As for Lynne's post, sometime reading threads and replies on this board tend to be very similar to watching shark feeding sessions...
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Dhboner
Contributor
This kind of behaviour is endemic to to internet forums. I also frequent some mountain bike sites and God help someone if they post a photo of their new bike and it doesn't pass muster with the hard cores!
If something is unsafe then let the poster know in a constructive and compassionate way but if it simply isn't up to your standards as the worlds greatest diver then go put on your drysuit and admire yourself in front of a mirror. The rest of us can continue to aspire to be like you.
If something is unsafe then let the poster know in a constructive and compassionate way but if it simply isn't up to your standards as the worlds greatest diver then go put on your drysuit and admire yourself in front of a mirror. The rest of us can continue to aspire to be like you.
CharlesFoster00
Registered
I think that much of the issue with replies on SB (and in email, etc) is with the difficulty of expression nuance in written conversations. The ability to guess what an OP is asking for, really asking for (approval? critiques? specific answers to questions?), requires a certain amount of thought... and empathy. Quick responses to quickly written posts brings the death spiral into motion. However, there are certainly people on SB who do take time to thoughtfully answer questions. In some cases, they clearly dedicate large amounts of time. I certainly don't think DIR divers are more likely to be 'mean', I just think that they have an unusually large representation on SB (and other forums).
As far as the second issue of people representing GUE (or other DIR agencies) in a positive light... I would say that many GUE divers DO represent the organization well. I think that inside the community there could/should be more conversation about how to represent what it is we do, and why we do it. To a recreational diver (which I am, in addition to being a GUE diver), I would refer to GUE as a 'style' of diving. In my 'style' of diving we practice skills x,y, and z. We also use equipment a,b, and c. I happen to think that mine is the best style, but I understand that not everyone does.
As far as the second issue of people representing GUE (or other DIR agencies) in a positive light... I would say that many GUE divers DO represent the organization well. I think that inside the community there could/should be more conversation about how to represent what it is we do, and why we do it. To a recreational diver (which I am, in addition to being a GUE diver), I would refer to GUE as a 'style' of diving. In my 'style' of diving we practice skills x,y, and z. We also use equipment a,b, and c. I happen to think that mine is the best style, but I understand that not everyone does.
OP
Really, it wasn't so much the specific thread that got me -- it was just the trigger for something that has irked me for a long time.
Andy, I'm not at all suggesting that we should never say anything critical or point out issues or problems, or try to steer people to thoughts or ideas that we think are better. For example, looking at your recreational diver pictures, one could gently point out the benefits of securing gear, or talk about how much longer someone's gas will last if they aren't at a 60 degree angle to the bottom when they're trying to swim. Positive suggestions are often very well taken, especially by people who don't know very much. On the other hand, saying, "How can you stand on the bottom like that? Didn't your instructor teach you ANYTHING?" is unlikely to encourage the person who posted the picture to ask you for any more advice . . . and all of your "kind" may be tarred with the same brush.
I think we have a lot of good things to say. I don't think we have to be mean to say them.
BTW, given that you are living in a warm, humid environment, you might consider choosing a pair of shoes which are less likely to cause your feet to sweat excessively. If you do use those shoes, consider putting a waterproofing spray or coating on them.
Andy, I'm not at all suggesting that we should never say anything critical or point out issues or problems, or try to steer people to thoughts or ideas that we think are better. For example, looking at your recreational diver pictures, one could gently point out the benefits of securing gear, or talk about how much longer someone's gas will last if they aren't at a 60 degree angle to the bottom when they're trying to swim. Positive suggestions are often very well taken, especially by people who don't know very much. On the other hand, saying, "How can you stand on the bottom like that? Didn't your instructor teach you ANYTHING?" is unlikely to encourage the person who posted the picture to ask you for any more advice . . . and all of your "kind" may be tarred with the same brush.
I think we have a lot of good things to say. I don't think we have to be mean to say them.
BTW, given that you are living in a warm, humid environment, you might consider choosing a pair of shoes which are less likely to cause your feet to sweat excessively. If you do use those shoes, consider putting a waterproofing spray or coating on them.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Crush
Contributor
As a general comment, TSandM, and without knowledge of the specific post where a diver was critiqued for their choice of gear, I would like to sincerely thank you for starting this thread. If what I read on SB is true (and how can it not be true?) 70% of divers don't progress beyond basic open water training. Such drivers may benefit from streamlined gear, but in truth their choice of gear is simply not that important. In fact (tongue firmly planted in cheek) having bulky gear may be a benefit in slowing an uncontrolled ascent. Divers on SB should encourage a diver's joy of diving and continued dive education - the proper gear will necessarily follow hand-in-hand with proper training.
Crush
Contributor
Initially, based upon what I read on SB, I concluded that most DIR divers were arrogant and egotistical - in a word, assholes. Now, having met a few, I am surprised that I have only happened upon the minority of DIR divers who are very nice. BTW, the posts that most put me off DIR were rants from what appear to me to be the old guard.
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This recalls a thread a few years back where one of "us" ... well, rhetorically speaking, since I'm not really one of "us" ... had a question about a little pokey stick that's popular with dive guides in Indonesia. They're used for pointing out tiny things like pygmy seahorses and such. Some divers also like to use them on drift dives ... which are common in certain places over there ... to keep them stable while taking pictures. Well, anyway, this particular diver was pretty new at the time and had, I think, just returned from that corner of the world. Her question was asked with sincerity. Some of the replies were pretty over-the-top ... and downright mean.
Anyway, I did my best to answer her question and shed some light on why some folks don't think divers should equip themselves with pointy objects for the purpose of balancing on the bottom or walls of a dive site. She was pretty receptive ... curious ... had a bunch more questions. One topic led to another, and before ya know it she's signing up for GUE classes.
Now she's more DIR than I'll ever be ... and still just as nice as can be.
I just went diving with her last week, as a matter of fact ... for sure she don't need that pokey stick anymore ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Anyway, I did my best to answer her question and shed some light on why some folks don't think divers should equip themselves with pointy objects for the purpose of balancing on the bottom or walls of a dive site. She was pretty receptive ... curious ... had a bunch more questions. One topic led to another, and before ya know it she's signing up for GUE classes.
Now she's more DIR than I'll ever be ... and still just as nice as can be.
I just went diving with her last week, as a matter of fact ... for sure she don't need that pokey stick anymore ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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