Why do caves close to diving?

[tbone1004]

true but they are certainly popular ones

Madison, Cow, Peacock, Little River. That's 3 of the 5 "big ones" excluding Ginnie and JB.

 

[LiteHedded]

tons of other caves to dive. even ones with goldline in them

 

[PfcAJ]

No, no. There aren't any other caves in Fl other than Peacock, Ginnie, Little River, Madison, Cow, JB, HitW, and Twin.

Move along. Move along...

 

[karstdvr]

I was just wondering what others thoughts were on this and if there was a legitimate reason that the parks around FL closed off the caves because of low vis.

20ft has been set as the mandated minimum visibility requirements. Have to remember full cave divers are not the only group that accesses the system,there are intro and cavern, and the state is not capable of differentiating all groups. Your experience points to 5'-10' for the first few 100 ft at OG, and then it cleared up,but not all flood events act the same,and due to the hydrodynamics at Peacock the conditions can degrade. So a person could start a dive in very marginal conditions, and slowly degraded to the point that they are in less than 5ft of viz,disoriented , and now a risk of an accident. Other things we have to ask too, is when Peacock is open to less than 20ft of viz the comments often from people are they didn't enjoy it because they couldn't see anything, and due to very low viz we tend to hug the line which presents some conservation issues.

---------- Post added March 14th, 2015 at 04:55 AM ----------

there are only a handful of caves that close like this

Your are correct, matter of fact I could give people directions to over a dozen caves on the Withlacoochee they could dive right now. That being said, I know with river levels on the Withlacoochee are high, and prior experience tells me that they are blown (aka 0 viz). No one has declared these closed,matter of fact they are quite open and accessible,but would anybody get enjoyment out of swimming in a river with overhead?

 

[tbone1004]

I wasn't suggesting those are the only ones, but as they are the "popular" and "easily accessible" ones in that area, they tend to effect those that are either in the middle of their training, or those that are recently certified, as well as those of us that are still exploring the many side passages there and enjoy the easy access. Most of the most beautiful cave passages I've been in aren't in the "popular" caves, but that doesn't mean I want to go to the effort of getting to them every time I'm down there, that's all I was pointing out. These caves are popular for a reason, easy access, lots of cave to explore, etc etc, that's all.

 

[BabyDuck]

because if you can't see the cave, why dive it?

not that i expect 100ft vis all the time, but really, i wouldn't enjoy a dive with 5 ft vis if the cave is bigger than that.

plus - we trialed little river the day it closed last week of december. we had heard it was 0 vis until just in the cavern, which we decided was acceptable. well, it was 0 past the gold line. how far past? who knows. we didn't want to deco blind. couldn't see watches or computers, couldn't see each other, turned that dive before it started and very glad to do so.

 

[karstdvr]

because if you can't see the cave, why dive it?

.

Good question.
I have seen slopes that have had heavy snow fall, and closed by the proprietor because of avalanche risk ,but it doesn't stop people from saying that I am going skiing regardless of what people say. Same thing applies to the caves. Had a guy that was staying at one of the shops near Peacock, and he was telling them that he had driven a long distance, and no one was going to stop him from accessing Peacock, even though everyone told him the system was blown. I think it is the mentality of being told no, not able to accept no. The state used to leave Peacock open when P1 was blown,but OG still had acceptable viz. The problem was people were getting into the areas that were being reversed out of curiosity and getting into trouble. I remember two different teams getting very disoriented and lost, and they both ended up exiting at Cisteen because they weren't sure where they were.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Good question.
I have seen slopes that have had heavy snow fall, and closed by the proprietor because of avalanche risk ,but it doesn't stop people from saying that I am going skiing regardless of what people say. Same thing applies to the caves. Had a guy that was staying at one of the shops near Peacock, and he was telling them that he had driven a long distance, and no one was going to stop him from accessing Peacock, even though everyone told him the system was blown. I think it is the mentality of being told no, not able to accept no. The state used to leave Peacock open when P1 was blown,but OG still had acceptable viz. The problem was people were getting into the areas that were being reversed out of curiosity and getting into trouble. I remember two different teams getting very disoriented and lost, and they both ended up exiting at Cisteen because they weren't sure where they were.

Why not just put a cable blocking the road past Orange Grove? I know of very, very few that would hump their gear that far.

 

[karstdvr]

Why not just put a cable blocking the road past Orange Grove? I know of very, very few that would hump their gear that far.

The problem is there is no cable, sign etc in the cave. In my previous example, these two teams entered at OG where it was clear,but their curiosity to see the reversal got them too far,and degradation was so gradual, that they really hadn't noticed it had gone from 30' down to 5'. The other problem that occurred was when they closed P1 but left OG open, you had a huge concentration of traffic at OG, so you would have 10 teams entering/exiting this small conduit, which led to silt outs- problems worse than the flooding. They decided with Peacock that unless the whole system meets minimum requirements, they don't want to open it.

Also, I mentioned that some people just can't accept no,and going to do what they want to do regardless. I guess two vans accessed Peacock and they were determined to dive. Understand photographs were taken of the vans and plates, so these people may suddenly discover difficulty accessing all the state parks for diving.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

The problem is there is no cable, sign etc in the cave. In my previous example, these two teams entered at OG where it was clear,but their curiosity to see the reversal got them too far,and degradation was so gradual, that they really hadn't noticed it had gone from 30' down to 5'. The other problem that occurred was when they closed P1 but left OG open, you had a huge concentration of traffic at OG, so you would have 10 teams entering/exiting this small conduit, which led to silt outs- problems worse than the flooding. They decided with Peacock that unless the whole system meets minimum requirements, they don't want to open it.

Also, I mentioned that some people just can't accept no,and going to do what they want to do regardless. I guess two vans accessed Peacock and they were determined to dive. Understand photographs were taken of the vans and plates, so these people may suddenly discover difficulty accessing all the state parks for diving.

Thanks for the responce but you did not come close answering the question. Orange grove could still be great while P1,2,3 are blown. Why not put a cable across the road the road preventing divers from going past OG?