why do we pay so much

[Brandnew2Scuba]

any other ideas of what you can get cheaper and where. i also follow ebay i see the same things on there go for 10 dollars of more what are people thinking do the research and find the deals you can spend more money on importent things

Buy online, always and everything. I'm sorry but I just don't care about the LDS, with the money I save by buying online I could probably buy my own compressor so don't give me the "where you gonna get your air" argument. Yes I did my OW at the dive shop, but their course cost the same as the OW that was offered by three of my local dive clubs. I only went to the LDS because their course was only 5 weeks as opposed to the longer and probably better dive club course. I don't feel bad for every Mom and Pop restaurant that's gone under due to the popularity of chain restaurants or any other independant business that's gone under thanks to big box or chain stores. I work hard for my money and I spend it wisely. Give me the best deal and that's where I'll shop.

 

[Scotty_Aus]

too some extent, i have to agree... i work darn hard for my money, and need it too last me and my family, no, i'm not rich, so i cant just throw the stuff away or spend it frivolously....

so - i want to support my LDS as much as possible, but cant afford the extra 25% i pay for their goods as opposed to online, so i asked my boss for a payrise, when he naturally enquired "Why?" i had but to explain to him how i need extra funds to support the increased cost of my LDS, and that i need his support to support them and so on... I bet you can guess what followed that convo... :11:

so people within the industry tell me to support my LDS, and accept higher prices and their opinions (which revolve around only the products they stock mind you) fair enough... anyone in the industry (or even outside it) ready to support me? fuel prices are on the rise, and driving to the LDS costs me more now to make that purchase, anyone willing to chip in a few bucks and help a diver out?? nup? bugga, and here i was thinking we all had to support each other, someone's gotta support the consumer for them to support the LDS right?

cheers.

 

[TheHobster]

Buy online, always and everything. I'm sorry but I just don't care about the LDS, with the money I save by buying online I could probably buy my own compressor so don't give me the "where you gonna get your air" argument.

what a sad state of affairs when you think you can get air, nitrox, training, service, help, and last minute items online - you need a lesson in economics - yes online may be less expensive, but that is the WalMart philosophy, screw service and sell cheap - diving is a service oriented business and people will pay for service and advice because they need it - is your online company gonna service your reg overnite because you are going on a dive in the morning and it's got a small leak?; is your online company gonna seal your drysuit today so you can dive tomorrow?; is your club (and I am a club officer) gonna get you in a nitrox class on Wed so you can dive it on the Aggressor next week?; is your online company gonna explain there dive trip and what you will need and any extra expenses involved?

This is the kind of short sighted "I" thinking that is killing this economy and this country - small businesses account for over 80% of employment and are a big part of the economy; if they fail we fail; I bet you don't tip divemasters either

 

[Elevatorguy2]

Is your online company gonna service your reg overnite because you are going on a dive in the morning? No, but my local dive shop will and will charge a pretty penny for it which Im fine with.
Is your online company gonna seal your drysuit today so you can dive tomorrow? No my local dive shop will and will charge a pretty penny for it which Im fine with.
Is your online company gonna explain there dive trip and what you will need and any extra expenses involved? No, and they also wont travel and stay for free if they sell enough trips for the travel agency.

 

[ReefHound]

what a sad state of affairs when you think you can get air, nitrox, training, service, help, and last minute items online - you need a lesson in economics

Or maybe you just need a lesson in preparedness. Don't wait until the night before your trip to check out your gear, have a backup reg (bought with the online savings) or know how to make field adjustments, get the training you need for a trip before booking the trip, etc. Exercise a few brain cells and research the trip details.

Amazing how people manage to get through life just fine on their own (or do they) yet need an LDS guardian angel to look after them when it comes to scuba.

 

[AstroDad]

At least scuba didn't make the top five: http://tinyurl.com/ymgegr

 

[in_cavediver]

what a sad state of affairs when you think you can get air, nitrox, training, service, help, and last minute items online - you need a lesson in economics - yes online may be less expensive, but that is the WalMart philosophy, screw service and sell cheap - diving is a service oriented business and people will pay for service and advice because they need it - is your online company gonna service your reg overnite because you are going on a dive in the morning and it's got a small leak?; is your online company gonna seal your drysuit today so you can dive tomorrow?; is your club (and I am a club officer) gonna get you in a nitrox class on Wed so you can dive it on the Aggressor next week?; is your online company gonna explain there dive trip and what you will need and any extra expenses involved?

This is the kind of short sighted "I" thinking that is killing this economy and this country - small businesses account for over 80% of employment and are a big part of the economy; if they fail we fail; I bet you don't tip divemasters either

AH, the meat of the arguement. How do you seperate service from overinflated prices.

Well, look at the small hardware store. I can go there and usually find someone to help locate the exact part I need and I pay a little more than at a big box home improvement store. Total difference, usually only a couple bucks. Spend a couple bucks more, get good service = save time = winning soluiton.

Now, lets look at diving. Small LDS vs big box online merchant. Sure, I can get a little better service from the LDS on questions provided they have what I want/need but the cost differential is MUCH larger between them and the online store. SO, what worked for the hardware store, which was say $5 bucks, is not $100 or more. Another fault is this, does the LDS have it in stock or do they order it. My expierence is they generally have to order it. Now its no more convientent than online and costing significantly more. It not a winning strategy. People just can't justify the extra expenses.

So what is a viable solution. Its really pretty easy. You are selling service and expertise right, so sell service and expertise. If you can't compete selling some gear, then either go online and compter or stop trying to compete with that item. Concentrate on something that is value added, like services (without guilt trips on where it came from) that can be competivie. If its not economically viable, then re-evaluate the buisness plan and buisness model and fix it. While your at it, stop blaming the customers for doing intelligent resource allocation with their money.

And for the finer points: the LDS that was last near me was never large enough to support inventory for Drysuits, Regulators or BCs so everything was ordered. Rebuilds and service were never overnight simply because it took more time that was available. The questions about travel, well hey, isn't what clubs and friends generally are for. And instruction, well, that's a whole nother issue as online stores do not offer online dive training. Independent instructors, well, they do and some seem to be doing just fine without the LDS overhead.

 

[TheHobster]

Amazing how people manage to get through life just fine on their own (or do they) yet need an LDS guardian angel to look after them when it comes to scuba.

Guardian angel. That's rich. Dive shops are service period. If your LDS is a "guardian ANGEL" they are way too hands on, and are perpetuating the myth that you can only dive with a professional; another bad trend in our industry - if that's the case I understand some of your feelings

You have never been on a shop trip have you? In todays economy, people work 50+ hours per week on a regular basis. Add to that responsibilities like kids and their events, family events etc, and they don't have time to get all done in a timely fashion. Many times they schedule a trip right after a "season" and never had time to attend to things properly. Additionally, many do not dive locally for many reasons "I don't do fresh water", "I don't do cold water", etc so they are not using the gear on a regular basis - so the trip comes up and as they are packing they come across an ooops, whatever that oops is. Guess what, the LDS takes care of it

BTW, I do not own, nor do I work with a shop. I teach for one after years as a GDI. I have seen the service, I came back form a night dive at 11:30 and the owner was in and doing regs so he could get them to a trip leader to bring for a customer that brought them in close to closing time. I have led trips and taken computers etc to participants because they called the day before and finally decided to buy but couldn't get in. Yes, this store does not stock EVERYTHING. What one can? SCUBA is a niche market, prices have to be higher so the owner can make a living. As a small business person myself, I understand the concept of "at risk". Everything stocked in the LDS was paid for by the owners money. He/she must decide which is the best things to buy with their money. There are certain things they turn over quick, and certain things they sell once in a while. The things that get turned over is where they spend the bulk of their money. It has to be that way, and having them order your special part is just a cost we pay to have them do it for us.

SCUBA is too small of a community to have people not supporting the LDS on some way. We could not thrive without them. Independent instructors can do well, no doubt w/o overhead, but where do their people buy gear for class, where do they get their rental stuff serviced?

And that persons comment about selling spots for a free trip etc. Don't for a minute think this does not go on in every industry. We are a captalistic society and no matter how we shave it, we want remuneration when we sell goods and services. If that remuneration includes commission and freebies after a certain level, so be it. When I was working as a corporate trainer, our travel agent kidded me that between myself and my trainers travel she had earned 2 trips to see her grandkids. I don't see the problem here. There is a grand tradition of non-money compensation in many industries. Talk to any sales person about company sponsored "reward" trips. If not for this, why would a store sponsor a trip.

Also, take a look at the local LDS trip schedule and try to match it. Every one I have led, I have tried. Closes I came was within $100. So for an extra $100 I can do all the research, make all the calls, book all the hotels, planes, boats; or save $100, write one check to LDS and go with them. Hmmm?

 

[ReefHound]

You have never been on a shop trip have you? In todays economy, people work 50+ hours per week on a regular basis. Add to that responsibilities like kids and their events, family events etc, and they don't have time to get all done in a timely fashion.

Who do these people get to book their trips to visit family for Christmas? How friggin' hard is it to book an Expedia trip or book airfare from a website, or make a phone call to a dive shop at vacation destination? If all else fails, call a travel agent.

I work 50+ hours, have wife and kids, and have never found it difficult or time-consuming to plan and arrange the trip. Besides, the research and planning is part of the fun.

Additionally, many do not dive locally for many reasons "I don't do fresh water", "I don't do cold water", etc so they are not using the gear on a regular basis - so the trip comes up and as they are packing they come across an ooops, whatever that oops is. Guess what, the LDS takes care of it

If those people need the handholding, let them pay for the handholding. Don't expect those of us who don't need it to help subsidize it.

As a small business person myself, I understand the concept of "at risk". Everything stocked in the LDS was paid for by the owners money. He/she must decide which is the best things to buy with their money. There are certain things they turn over quick, and certain things they sell once in a while. The things that get turned over is where they spend the bulk of their money. It has to be that way, and having them order your special part is just a cost we pay to have them do it for us.

If they have to order it, what's the point? I can order it. The online shops are owned by people using their money and trying to make a living as well. No, I can read your mind (or anticipate the usual tired arguments), don't even go there, they typically carry far more inventory and have greater overhead than a LDS.

SCUBA is too small of a community to have people not supporting the LDS on some way. We could not thrive without them. Independent instructors can do well, no doubt w/o overhead, but where do their people buy gear for class, where do they get their rental stuff serviced?

You service your rental stuff? People can buy gear online. Again, the people that need an LDS to hold their hands or cover for their lack of planning are free to pay for it. But that's not what these discussions are ever about. You want the people that don't need that level of service to pay for it anyway to help subsidize those that do need it.

With proper planning, there's really not much a LDS can do that an online shop can't except for two things - rental equipment (air fills) and classes. Equipment and air fills are available at many dive sites (esp. for thsoe resort divers you mentioned) and classes are available through independent instructors. A good dive club can also fill the role of the LDS - without the profit motive.

Also, take a look at the local LDS trip schedule and try to match it. Every one I have led, I have tried. Closes I came was within $100. So for an extra $100 I can do all the research, make all the calls, book all the hotels, planes, boats; or save $100, write one check to LDS and go with them. Hmmm?

Yeah, the big "hmmmm" here is what fantastic LDS you have or what terrible planner you are. I've never seen a LDS trip that I couldn't beat by 20% with a few phone calls or website clicks. Put it on the line, right here and now. Post a link to the best LDS trip to... let's say Cozumel, that you can find.

But I really have nothing against the LDS trips, just contesting your statement that their prices are typically unbeatable. Most are based on low margin but they must book well in advance and don't have the ability to target airfare and hotel special sales.

 

[looped]

Specialty stores are almost always going to be higher priced on 'common items'. Why? Because they are going for the idea that people want a 'get it all in one place' place . They are probably going to be comparable priced on the 'big' stuff, regs, masks, fins, bc's etc etc. They have to be since they are going to be competing with online / wholesalers etc etc. For the other stuff, they will bump their prices, knowing that most people would rather spend the $10 - $20 - $50 more in one place, then having to go to a number of other places, maybe only spending $20 instead of $50, but taking 1/2 a day to do it. If I'm comfortable with a company, and know they arent ripping me on the big items, I'll pay for their existence and such for the smaller items that I KNOW they are making good money one.

For the knowledge and comfort of a local store, I'm willing to pay extra for that. There are some folks that will spend 2 months looking at EVERY place in the world to get the best price. That's fine, but I'm willing to forgo that to a point, to KNOW that I'll have someone I can go talk with, that I can understand, if I have a problem.