Wings and integrated weight BC's - Are they dangerous?

[RAWalker]

I like the idea of spreading the weight around and will look at that as a sensible option.

The idea of not putting too much air in the wings doesn't hold for me, assuming that you are sent to the surface unconcious will the rescuer remember to only put a small amount of air in your wings or will someone turn you over when you get to the surface?

I assume that all OW trainees are taught to take off their gear and put it back on again underwater (as I was) and I can see some trainees hanging upside down holding their BC.

Actually,
I just completed my classroom and dives for Rescue diver today so with it fresh in mind. If you are brought to the surface unconcious the diver will inflate your BCD and lay you on your back to check if you are breathing. In this instance the wing or back inflator gives a great stable platform and is easy to tow. With these type BCD it is easy to do a full lay back when fully inflated it is just hard to stay vertical.

 

[RAWalker]

My buddy Ross says he likes Hitler more than weight integrated BCs.
He said that after having to lift a rig onto his boat with the weights in the pouches.

There isn't anything stopping anyone from pulling out the weight pouches first and then lifting the BC into the boat. Always try to work smarter not harder!

 

[Dantheengineer]

Much wizdom so far!
I, too, like the idea of thirds! Good for trim possibilities/weight distribution. I dont like Hitler as much.

I like to vary my kit as much as possible, for no other reason than personal choice. I've recently obtained integrated pockets for my wing and initially don't like'em much! After trainning with a traditional belt it's gonna take a while.

Objectively, i guess the only real "danger" with the different systems (assuming they are in/of themselves safe) is to ensure your buddy is familiar with the location and releases. (if you buddy, that is)
That and , boat permitting, mabe fit a dive ladder so the crew dont suffer a hernia retrieving gear!

Roll on the summer when we can ditch some of the lead and alot of the neopreen.

Most dangerous piece of gear? I'd say NOT carrying cutting gear.
I dive Tropical so it's faily tame. Folk'll ask me what i expect to find that warrents wearing a knife? I reply "i don't know"
If they don't AND i don't, shouldn't one of us? just in case?
Dan

 

[rstofer]

That is one of my big issues with WI BCs - they weigh too much. Figure, in my case, 26# of lead, 40# of HP100 (full) plus reg & backpack and you're looking at 75#!

So, I carry 20# in a harness, a 6# BP/W with the 40# tank. I never need to lift more than 50# and even that is getting to be a challenge.

My other issue with WI BCs is the security of the weight pockets. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support the idea that some BCs drop their weights. This can be a gigantic problem made even worse if the bulk of the weight is integrated. I suspect it is more common when the amount of weight is higher. Just the condition under which you can't afford to lose the weights.

None of this weight issue matters to young people. You just wait, you'll be old one day and then you'll see why diving from inflatables is the only way to go!

Richard

 

[rstofer]

Actually,
I just completed my classroom and dives for Rescue diver today so with it fresh in mind. If you are brought to the surface unconcious the diver will inflate your BCD and lay you on your back to check if you are breathing. In this instance the wing or back inflator gives a great stable platform and is easy to tow. With these type BCD it is easy to do a full lay back when fully inflated it is just hard to stay vertical.

Us aged folks really like the 'lay on your back and kick back' thing with BP/Ws. Taking a nap is the thing we do best!

Richard

 

[h90]

I lost twice one integrated weight.
Warm water shorty dives, so it is possible to manage it with half the weight somehow without being a rocket, in cold water it might be very dangerous.

Now I have half the weight on the weight belt (back side) half the weight in the regular pockets.
mean if I take off the weight belt (in any case of emergency I wouldn't ascent very fast.
That seems the perfect solution for warm water diving for cold I don't know.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Actually,
I just completed my classroom and dives for Rescue diver today so with it fresh in mind. If you are brought to the surface unconcious the diver will inflate your BCD and lay you on your back to check if you are breathing. In this instance the wing or back inflator gives a great stable platform and is easy to tow. With these type BCD it is easy to do a full lay back when fully inflated it is just hard to stay vertical.

I also just completed classroom and the confined water dives for Rescue Diver (my instructor refuses to combine Ice Diving with Rescue Open Water, go figure). I wear a wing and we discussed wings in class.

The instructor's position was that when actively rescuing someone, you always control their position and there is no difference between rescuing someone in a wing vs. someone in a jacket. He was happy I had the wing because he felt rescue divers should be familiar with the differences if any. My classmates had no difficulty rescuing me in a wing.

IIRC my classes correctly, you never send a diver up to the surface unattended by inflating their BCD. I practiced the exact opposite technique, taking an unresponsive diver to the surface and deflating their BCD as we rose so that they would not experience a runaway ascent.

There is the question of an unconscious and unattended diver at the surface. The argument seems to be that a diver is at the surface, they are unconscious, they do not have a buddy with them, there is no rescuer with them to turn them over, and they have fully inflated their wing.

You have to decide for yourself whether this is likely enough to warrant purchasing a more traditional jacket BC. That is your call, and I would never fault you for exercising your own judgment in the matter.

 

[Van Isle]

Over fifty dives with a WI BC and the most weight I've ever had to move at once is just over 12 lbs in the BC (not counting the cylinder). I dive dry/cold water with 38 lbs. If I had to wear a 38lb weight belt I'd be stuck moving most, if not all of the weight around at once. Plus, if I lost the weight belt...ZOOM! As it is I can drag my weight pouches, 10lb each, down to the water's edge, click them in and dive. The only time I wore a weight belt (other than OW pool sessions) was on a warm water dive with rental BC. Guess what dropped off my body getting back in to the boat? YMMV. Dive your own way. Lots of justifications for different configs depending on diving locale and objective.

Cheers!
VI

 

[Lee Taylor]

I don't like the vest style BC because of the squeeze and bulkyness around your midsection. I like the wings and back inflation style best. I like the way the back inflation allows you to lay flat on the bottom or hover above the bottom in a horizontal attitude. I also have noticed that on the surface you can lay on your back if you dont like countering the gentle urging of the rear inflation to rotate you onto your face.

The most dangerous piece of diving equipment in use today is "weights".

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

An experienced diver should be able to dive well in whatever modern gear in which they have training and experience. For the most part, reports of issues, problems and dangers with specific gear have more to do with less experienced divers using gear in which they have little training or experience .

As a fit and experienced warm water diver, a weight belt for me is never over 16 lbs and it easily stays in place. That weight is my winter weight; 5 mm Aquaflex (1 y/o) over 3 mm Oceanic john (old) with 5 mm SeaSport booties). As a dive guide I can verify that dealing with my guests WI rigs is a pain and a hassle.

With thousands of dives in SeaQuest jacket BC's and a few hundred dives in a SeaQuest Balance BI BC, I can verify that the Balance is much harder to get air out of during the dive than any of the jacket styles (with kidney dump) that I have ever used. Speaking of kidney dump; on the Balance, even with my longer than average arms, it is a real effort to streatch back enough to use the kidney dump. On my jacket it is always close and easy. Using the in/deflator to dump requires much more rotation &/or verticle positioning to get the small amounts of air out late in a shallow dive.

I have enough flexibility, training and experience to make the differences not much of an issue, but most people with less flexibility, training and experience would dive easier in the jackets. From a guides view looking up, there are way more BI's at the surface trying to get the air out late in the dive. Even divers claiming to be experienced.