Would You Use A Ponypak

[flyin01]

Wow. I was away from the forum for a 2 weeks and this took off again.

Bill, to answer your question who is flyin01. I am a Chicago area diver and have talked to a friend of yours who is a non- diver but excited about PonyPak. After they got done explaining it I told them I didn’t see the point It looked like you were reinventing the wheel. I went to your website and looked around and still didn’t see the point but wanted to keep an open mind about your design. I fully admit I am not the worlds most experienced diver so I decided to search ScubaBoard to see if there was any information on your product that would help me see the light. I was somewhat shocked to find nothing so I started this thread with a simple question and a link to your website. Now with 15 pages of opinions and facts I think I figured it out. I could see the PonyPak appeal to new divers who want a simple packaged solution in one purchase like a traditional BCD. More advanced divers who know what they want based on their experience and dive interest may prefer the traditional pony setup. As for me I think I am leaning towards a tank mounted traditional setup. I hope the launch goes well and to see you out on the lake soon.

Steve

 

[PonyPak]

Hi Steve,

It is good to meet another Chicago diver. I appreciate your thoughts. As you mentioned, you saw nothing when you went to Scubaboard. That was deliberate.

The product has been in development and dive testing across the country, for seven (7) years, with a broad spectrum of divers; from novice to public safety, to scientific, to commercial.

I deliberately kept it "under the radar", not allowing photos, interviews, media, etc. until we got it exactly right, in all its various configurations, in the opinions of a multitude of divers who contributed the benefit of their background, experience and foresight.

I knew well the misperceptions people would likely have, from a photo, absent actually diving the units. Those include the fact that PonyPak will also mount just like every other product (side-sling and tank mount with a daughter bracket - shown on the old site, but not the current one).

My plan was to begin media, when we had production units delivered to dealers, in diver's hands, and a production website, showcasing the final products, with published reviews written by diving media professionals, who had actually test dived the product.

I readily admit, your post was premature for our efforts. It has required a lot of time to take control of the dialogue, with systematic responses to each question raised. That's the "unfortunate but not bad news."

The good news is, 6,000 people have viewed this dialogue, and are quietly considering their own opinions.

There is one common denominator in which I trust: the opinions of those who actually see the units "in person", actually dive with them, are unanimously positive in their appraisal. PonyPak works in every way a diver would want - including the front mount.

One example was this past weekend at OWU (were you there?). A serious looking diver came up and said (and this is the absolute truth).....

"I have been coming to OWU for 35 years.... and this is the smartest, most brilliant idea for a dive product that I have ever seen in this show."

Considering I was there with all the other major dive equipment manufactures, some with booths that were quadruple the size of PonyPak - it was a reasonably well taken compliment.

My goal with PonyPak was to provide an alternative for divers who do not dive redundant, because they feel the "traditional" way is insufficiently comfortable for them.

As people, one by one actually see and dive the units, I believe PonyPak will achieve its goal: to reduce avoidable fatalities, that are triggered by people who simply run out of air. They finally decide to dive redundant.

Thank you for starting this dialog. I look forward to meeting you. Come on up to Ghost Ships, this weekend!

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[flyin01]

Well I guess when you’re out in public showing your product this is going to happen sooner or later. Ghost Ships sounds like a great time but family and work will be keeping me busy this weekend. I plan to start diving Lake Michigans wrecks this summer so I started looking into pony bottles and in the process dragged the PonyPak out of the shadows. Send me a pm if you are out doing demos I would like to see it in action.

 

[PonyPak]

Hi Steve,

I'd be happy to keep you posted. Rather than a PM which is difficult to track, the most efficient way would be for you to send me an email, asking to be be put on our list. When we begin organized "Demo Days" I can let you know with everyone.

And I dive virtually every weekend with friends from Chicago Scuba Meetup and the Underwater Archeological Society of Chicago. These are two terrific, very active groups of divers. Hope to see you at a meeting or group dive....
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[PonyPak]

Sorry to disappoint but a product has been available to do this for many years. The AP Diving Verti-clip;

Verti-Clip | AP Diving

Hello Hickdive!

I appreciate your comment and link to the Verti-Clip. What Doc was able to see (which is not clearly shown in his photo above) is the load bearing capacity of the PonyPak design.

This is in addition to its ability to directly (and simultaneously ) attach virtually every other kind of clip/accessory on the market, without having to first have it attached (via additional webbing) to a slide bolt (as is required by the Verti-Clip - and shown in their photo) in order to make the attachment

The following two photos come from your link.






Compare them to the PonyPak DG Clip, in both the plastic and metal versions



The question with the Verti-clip,(“VC”) is not whether you can attach a slide bolt to the D-ring.

It is whether the "VC" has the load bearing capacity to carry the weight of what is attached to the slide bolt. It’s capacity is extremely limited… (to compasses, knives etc).

If you insert the "VC" clip to the shoulder strap of your harness – it will NOT carry the 20lb weight of a PonyPak, with a 19 cft bottle, two (2) first stage regulators (for the umbilical version), a second stage regulator and the 4 port gas block.

The “VC” will immediately slip downward. It’s load bearing capacity is minimal, because it has no teeth, to sink into the webbing. Furthermore, some webbing is very thin and slippery, which further limits its load bearing capacity.

On the other hand, the PonyPak “DG clip” was specifically designed to do exactly what I described above…. securely hold 20 vertical pounds of dead weight, out of the water – with any kind of webbing (or thickness).

It has sharp teeth the grab the webbing, with closure of the outrigger “fingers”. In developing PonyPak we learned there are many BC’s on the market that do not have D-rings located in the Pectoral area. We had to design an insert-able D-ring that could successfully sustain the weight, irrespective of the webbing material.

Then you have the additional ability to directly connect virtually every other kind of clip, snap, hook, adjuster on the market – directly to the DG – with no webbing or slide bolt required. (See left photo).

This feature was developed to allow the same clip to attach the lower QD’s directly from the PonyPak to the Diver’s waist belt. (See Photo Right)

Look closely. You will see the “outriggers” on the SR. Even with thick gloves, the diver can easily squeeze those. The PonyPak instantly pops free of the diver.





Hopefully this will clarify the important, substantial differences between load-capacity/application-variety of the PonyPak DG Clip, and the Verti-Clip.

If all you need is to clip a light weight accessory, the Verti-clip is an excellent choice. If you need to clip anything more substantial, of greater mass, or greater economical value to the diver, the PonyPak D/G clip is the superior alternative.

When they are released (in Delrin - not the 3d printed prototypes shown here) I hope you will look at them. I think your impression will be favorable.

Thank you for taking the time to make your comments.


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[Hickdive]

Having personally used a verti clip to carry a 72 cu ft steel stage along with regulator and gauge on many dives I can assure you that they do not slip.

But, I appreciate your time in responding.

 

[PonyPak]

Hickdive!

Thank you for the update. That is interesting to know.

While designing/testing the DG clip we tested over a dozen variations (& suppliers) of the ways D rings are held in place (all requiring threading from the end).

We found every D-ring that did not have teeth - slipped - some quickly and dangerously so, when any appreciable (vertical) weight was added.

When I later saw the design you referred, and it did not have teeth, I did not investigate its load-bearing capacity. I assumed it would slip, at least with some types of webbing (the thinner, slicker webbing)....

I appreciate your correcting my misperception. Thank you.
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