• Welcome to ScubaBoard


  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Yoke and DIN on doubles?

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by Mndiv, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Mndiv

    Mndiv Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
    91
    2
    8
    I am considering getting a set off doubles sometime in the far off future and first off I just wanna say that I know practically nothing about doubles, except that 200 and 300 bar mean different number of threads and therefore a different pressure rating.

    Currently I have an Edge Epic Cold water environmentally sealed first stage (Yoke) and I know that I would need a second one. If/when I do get doubles I would be looking at something along the lines of two AL80's which I know you can assemble yourself or buy in a package on both scubatoys.com and diverightin scuba.

    So are doubles DIN? Would I be fine mounting two yoke first stages on a set of AL80 doubles, and if no is there a way to convert my Yoke first stages to DIN with like a DIN converter plug?

    Really any info would help at this point, so as always thanks!
     
  2. tbone1004

    tbone1004 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
    7,884
    1,974
    113
    why would you want al80's up there? just buy a used set of doubles and call it good. Not sure about that first stage, but you'll want both din regs on the doubles, you don't want to mix and match. The 200bar valves make it easier for filling but I doubt you'll see anyone diving with the inserts in. Buy an extra HOG 1st stage and you can keep the epic for a deco or o2 regulator. You also don't see yoke manifolds very often, and I'm not sure of any that are made now.
    It's also not so much a pressure rating anymore. The older 3500psi tanks required 300 bar per DOT ruling, but the old steel 72's and any other tank can have 300bar and all of the modern scuba regs in this country that are din have the 300bar threads.

    Take a intro to tech course or find a buddy up there that can let you flop around in the pool and explain all about doubles. Mentoring is something that used to be the only way scuba was taught and is now it's hard to come by...
     
  3. Wayne at DiveSeekers

    Wayne at DiveSeekers Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: New Jersey
    859
    163
    43
    So are doubles DIN? Would I be fine mounting two yoke first stages on a set of AL80 doubles, and if no is there a way to convert my Yoke first stages to DIN with like a DIN converter plug?

    First off, I would start by taking a "Intro to Tec" class and then all this should be covered in Configuration as well as other topics like Buoyancy, Propulsion, Air-Shares, Valve Management, Mask & SMB Skills. IMO and how I teach, YES Doubles should be DIN and 300 bar. Could you use Yoke first stages on the doubles? The answer is technically yes with a 200bar manifold but I do not recommend/promote that. There should be a "Din Conversion Kit" offered for your reg so get that and do not use any kind of adapter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  4. Phil_C

    Phil_C Instructor, Scuba Staff Member

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: UK, Middle East, Cyprus
    920
    405
    63
    Mndiv - I have no experience of setting up doubles yet, but have been looking into cylinders and regulators/first stages recently and have just ordered a additional first stage so I can think about doubles in the future and use a pony at the moment. Doubles can be either yoke or DIN, you choose, just so long as the tanks match your first stages, also you could have one yoke and one DIN cylinder so long as they were rated to the same pressure i.e both to 232 bar.

    What common sense says you cannot do is have doubles which are mixed pressures with linked valves, for example a cylinder with 232 bar and a cylinder with 300 bar with joined valves but I'm sure someone will come along and confirm this. The risk in this situation as I see it would be if you had a 300 bar DIN tank on one side, and a 232 bar yoke on the other then if the centre valve on the doubles was open the overall pressure would exceed the rating for the 232 bar yoke side and risk an o ring failure.

    The new first stage I have ordered is a DIN and my existing one is a yoke, but I don't expect any problem have twins with two valves on doubles, one DIN and one yoke, both at 232 bar.

    I think you can easily get an adaptor to convert DIN to yoke (it just screws in/on - and have ordered one for my new first stage) but I don't think you can get an adapter to go the other way i.e yoke to DIN. I think to go from yoke to DIN you have to get a conversion kit and take the first stage apart to fit it, so it isn't easily done on the dive site.

    Hope this all makes sense - Phil
     
  5. Mndiv

    Mndiv Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
    91
    2
    8
    Thanks for the reply's so far. Intro tec makes sense but I dont will not take the course just for clearing up a relatively simple question I have about doubles. The reason Im considering them is that Im from Minnesota and in a few years Ill be old enough to get my ice diving cert, something i certainly plan to do. The most recent edition of "Dive Training" featured an article on this and stated also that 2 first stages are necessary because of the risk of a first stage freezing up in which case you have a back up. So as it stands right now if I got another Yoke first stage and two AL80's doubles and a 200 bar manifold I could mount them without a problem. If that was the case it would certainly clear things up. The reason I say AL80s is because steel is a lot more expensive and I dont exactly have extra cash lying around and I believe if you bought two AL80's, the manifold, and two metal tank bands you could assmble them yourself.

    I sorta wish Id bought yoke regs but It would get pretty expensive to buy another pair of two DIN first stages now if its not necessary. Is there actually any advantages of 300 bar vs 200 bar if you use AL80 tanks?
     
  6. Bubbletrubble

    Bubbletrubble Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Seussville
    4,811
    872
    0
    It's really not a good idea to get into technical diving without a "reasonable" budget to match. If you are doing any deep diving, the price of gear (tanks, regs) will be dwarfed by the cost of the various gas mixes you'll need.

    Many of the above posters are assuming a double tank setup with a manifold (which has an isolator valve and two posts, with one first stage to each post).
    It's certainly possible to dive back-mounted doubles in an independent tank configuration with no isolator that allows mixing of gas between the two tanks.
    Similarly, one could dive sidemount with two AL80s.
    Either of these two configurations would theoretically allow first stage regs to be yoke or DIN, provided that the tank valves are matching.

    Something to consider is that, if you are doing any "overhead" diving (and ice diving would certainly quality as such), you should probably be diving DIN-configured regs. At least that's what most of the technical diving community would say. Feel free to contact a local ice diving instructor to confirm this. It's good that you are thinking ahead in terms of gear purchases.

    For OW recreational diving, do whatever you want.
     
  7. Mndiv

    Mndiv Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
    91
    2
    8
    I wouldnt say this is necessarily tech diving (yet:D) as the deep diving specialty from PADI allows divers to go to 130 ft on air, and thats what I plan to stay by until I've acquired several years experience on that set up. I am also looking into (yes) ice diving and wreck diving specialties after AOW so yes both would be overhead environments, but why does that call for DIN? I know that it is preffered among the tech community for allowing higher pressures, but what exactly is the difference when ice diving?

    This is the set Im looking at:Aluminum 80 Double Tank Setup discounts on sale ScubaToys

    it comes with tanks bands, two AL80 tanks, and two DIN to Yoke converters, as well as (in my case) a 200 bar manifold. This set up would allow me to put a yoke on one (and convert it when I feel like it) and mount a DIN on the other, considering they're both the same pressure rating as Phil_C mentioned. Sidemount would be getting techy, and this is why for me simply doubles seems logical, especially considering I would like to get into ice diving. The DIN on one and Yoke on the other would also give me the option to convert that one to DIN when I have the money (What is a general cost estimate of converting your average reg from Yoke to DIN)?

    Thanks so much guys this is really helping!
     
  8. Mndiv

    Mndiv Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
    91
    2
    8
    Oh and I do want the manifold that allows gas exchange between the 2 tanks
     
  9. Bubbletrubble

    Bubbletrubble Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Seussville
    4,811
    872
    0
    The reason will be fairly obvious once you sit down, look at the designs, and play with them a little bit.
    Do the following comparison: Try to detach a pressurized DIN-configured reg first stage by hand. Then compare that experience to detaching a pressurized yoke-configured reg first stage by hand. (Note: Pressurize the reg system and then turn off the tank valve. At least that's how I'd do it. :) )

    If there is physical structure above you in a true overhead environment, contact with the overhead is more likely to dislodge a yoke-configured reg vs. a DIN-configured one.
    Also, yoke-configured regs protrude behind the tank valve pillar, whereas DIN-configured regs do not. This makes contact with the overhead structure more likely.

    FWIW, I've had friends conduct thousands of dives using yoke-configured regs with HP steel tanks (service pressure: 3442psi) without incident. Modern yoke-configured regs can certainly handle that much tank pressure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  10. Mndiv

    Mndiv Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
    91
    2
    8
    Thanks for the advice, judging by this I think I will order a DIN first stage and look into getting my current yoke one converted into DIN, any idea on price for conversion? I'll also get a DIN-yoke converter should I run into yoke tanks which will certainly happen. Do you see any other problems with the configuration I posted?

    If I do get DIN would you suggest a 200 or 300 bar manifold?

    Once again thanks, this is really helping a lot!
     

Share This Page