Primary donation

[InTheDrink]

Ok, so this is a split from a post DCBC made in a current thread about diving education today.

This is why some Instructors (including myself) don't teach primary donation. It breaks the first rule of every major water-rescue agency: Never put yourself in danger. As soon as you give up the primary, it's a turkey shoot.

It may also coincide well (or perhaps repeat) the current hullabaloo about BSAC's stance on Primary Take (which I can only read as Primary donation) which is also featured in debate on this forum.

Anyhow, my question is this: I've just started doing the long hose, primary donation necklaced backup and thus far I love it. I've even needed to donate which was helpful. The primary drivers for me changing to this config were:
1. I wanted miflex hoses as mine were rigid and pulling my reg out of my mouth
2. I wanted some space capacity in the event of an OOG/LOG situation
3. Last but not least, I have always believed that the location of a non-standard attachment mechanism for the backup is a death trap (sorry for dramatic language). In buddy checks on many occasions I haven't been able to release the octo on first attempt. Bad news. And if someone takes my primary, my octo was rarely in good view point so I would need to retrieve by feel (and hope it was where I put it in the first place). Essentially I saw this aspect of having a safe second not very well designed and not terribly safe.

So I've tried out an alternative rigging that has significant following on this board. So far, perhaps unsurprisingly given the participants, I haven't come across any good arguments against long hose, primary donation, necklaced backup. But DCBC's opinion I respect and he has mentioned that he thinks it a bad idea. Rather than hijack his thread I've started a new one.

So what are the downsides to long hose/primary donation/necklaced backup.

Go, shoot.

J

[elan]

It's been at least 100 dives I've been looking for those downsides have not found anything yet.

[Doc Harry]

So what are the downsides to long hose/primary donation/necklaced backup.

Gear entaglement. When you start adding things like can lights and stage bottles, there is the added complexity of ensuring that the light cord doesn't get tangled with the long hose, and that you don't trap the long hose when unclipping/clipping stage bottles.

I can't think of any other downsides.

[InTheDrink]

Gear entaglement. When you start adding things like can lights and stage bottles, there is the added complexity of ensuring that the light cord doesn't get tangled with the long hose, and that you don't trap the long hose when unclipping/clipping stage bottles.

I can't think of any other downsides.

Well here's my started for two then too

#1: Easier to get wrong when kitting up (I got my primary release trapped by placing my backup on top of it). Easily checked and resolved by a quick S-drill prior to getting in the water.
#2: my necklace is too short so to look directly down I've had to move my backup sideways to allow space for my primary. A minor annoyance and easily resolved with a longer necklace.
#3: Gotta remember to clip second once out
#4: Gotta remember to remove necklace when de-kitting (although if you don't you will be sharply reminded!).

Nothing their that I think compares to the downsides of 'standard' solutions but still minor downsides or quirks.

Anything else?

[Doc Harry]

Anything else?

When getting set up on a boat, the dang lose hose is a tripping hazard.

[elan]

When getting set up on a boat, the dang lose hose is a tripping hazard.

This one is easily resolved by rolling it up few times and unrolling when everything else is set.

[InTheDrink]

When getting set up on a boat, the dang lose hose is a tripping hazard.

My #3 caters for that I think. Primary gets clipped to top right hand shoulder D-ring at all times when not diving or about to

J

[Sas]

It may also coincide well (or perhaps repeat) the current hullabaloo about BSAC's stance on Primary Take (which I can only read as Primary donation) which is also featured in debate on this forum.

No, BSAC allows teaching of primary donation, but not primary take. They're different concepts as at higher levels of training you're expected to have it together enough to ask for air rather than snatch it if you run out. That is the difference.

Basically you have to make sure the hose doesn't get trapped, that's the main downside to me.

[rstofer]

The long hose fouls my snorkel. Yes, I still wear a snorkel and I intend to continue doing so.

Of course, my DH reg fouls the snorkel too!

Then there is the short inflator hose on the DSS rig that also gets confused with the snorkel.

There's a theme here...

Richard

[limeyx]

The long hose fouls my snorkel. Yes, I still wear a snorkel and I intend to continue doing so.

Of course, my DH reg fouls the snorkel too!

Then there is the short inflator hose on the DSS rig that also gets confused with the snorkel.

There's a theme here...

Richard

Put the snorkel in your pocket when diving(since you cant really use it there) and retrieve it for when you are on the surface ?