Microbubbles and Shore Diving

bwerb · May 28, 2003

Uncle Pug got me thinking so I thought I'd start a new thread here.

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Managing micro bubbles is one of those variables that comes into play. Strenuous activity before, during and after the dive can bring about more damage that stepping over the NDL in my experience.

Most of our shore dives involve long treks up flights of stairs and hillsides after diving to get back to the car. It seems that the trip from the water to the car is completely exhausting with full cold water kit. What would everyone suggest as an optimum and "real world" solution to the situation which we are faced with?

I'm thinking that the best solution would likely to be to get out of the water and sit down or rest for 10 to 15 minutes, then begin the trek up back up to the car. Or would it be best to do this, drop weights and tank and take two trips? I'm really not into doing it more than once unless I have to.

What do you think

notabob · May 28, 2003

I almost always take the time to relax a bit after the dive. Depending on the shore site that I'm at, I usually like to gear up at water's edge vs. at the car. Most of the time it's actually easier that way. This typically allows me time to relax and rest up after the dive, especially when the exit involves lots of surge & slippery rocks.

If gearing up/down would have to be done at the car and there's a long trek to and from the water's edge, I'd typically try to take a short break before hauling it up. Sometimes I'll break the gear down at water's edge after the dive anyway, and make 2 trips.

-Roman.

Uncle Pug · May 28, 2003

If you can, make use of the World's Largest Waterbed and restawhile.

Braunbehrens · May 28, 2003

bwerb once bubbled...
Uncle Pug got me thinking so I thought I'd start a new thread here.

Most of our shore dives involve long treks up flights of stairs and hillsides after diving to get back to the car. It seems that the trip from the water to the car is completely exhausting with full cold water kit. What would everyone suggest as an optimum and "real world" solution to the situation which we are faced with?

I'm thinking that the best solution would likely to be to get out of the water and sit down or rest for 10 to 15 minutes, then begin the trek up back up to the car. Or would it be best to do this, drop weights and tank and take two trips? I'm really not into doing it more than once unless I have to.

What do you think

This is a subject I'm very interested in as well. When we dive off my boat we have to haul the gear into the boat afterwards. This is always a difficult operation, even with two people, and takes quite a bit of strength. Especially after deco dives, I just don't like doing it. If we have to haul the anchor in by hand, it's yet one more stress on the body.

I'm not sure that waiting 15-20 mn is a good idea. From what I have read and heard the bubbles INCREASE for the first 20 mn after reaching the surface.

I would say wait an hour, or don't wait at all, but that's just my interpretation...and I'm no expert.

bwerb · May 28, 2003

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
If you can, make use of the World's Largest Waterbed and restawhile.

How long do you think is a reasonable time to make use of the provided facilities?

roakey · May 28, 2003

bwerb once bubbled...
How long do you think is a reasonable time to make use of the provided facilities?

A buddy and I fell asleep in Orange Grove Sink one time. We woke up at about the 45 minute mark.

Roak

Stone · May 28, 2003

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
If we have to haul the anchor in by hand, it's yet one more stress on the body.

I am a true believer in using an anchor ball.

Dr Deco · May 28, 2003

Dear Readers:

Post-Dive Exercise and Microbubbles

If there is any sure way to increase the risk of DCS following a dive, heavy exercise is the way to go. Dive tables are never tested with this post-dive activity. Possibly they should be, but that would decrease allowed bottom time considerably and penalize the vast majority of recreational divers who do not perform work such as hauling their gear.

Time of Appearance of Bubbles

The twenty-minute delay note is for the appearance of bubbles by the Doppler detector. These bubbles have been growing all along since the ascent to the surface. Hiking up the hill before 20 minutes will only make the situation worse. You will cause more microbubbles to form from the physical activity (i.e., stress assisted nucleation)

What to Do?

Personally, O would plead medical infirmity and get someone else to lug all of my stuff. If that was not possible, then I would

limit my final dive to a time much less than the NDL,
possibly stay in the water on the surface (the hidden stop) and aid off gassing by moving my arms and legs; this would promote blood flow and off gassing,
perform similar movements on the beach and definitely not sleep since this would reduce blood flow to its lowest possible level.

Dr Deco :doctor:
Please note the next class in Decompression Physiology :grad:
http://wrigley.usc.edu/hyperbaric/advdeco.htm

MikeFerrara · May 28, 2003

Well I don't have a solution but I think I can complicate the problem. Add the fact that absorbed gas models don't address bubble seeds at all. Often with a shore dive you're faced with a gradual descent which , as I understand it , effectivly limits Pcrush allowing more seeds the chance to survive at a size where growth is possible. Essentially a reverse profile that isn't accounted for in traditional models and only accounted for in the bubble models if the shallow first portion or the slow descent is accounted for in planning.

Doc Deco did a good paper on micro-nuclei life which should give some indication of the length of time one should rest before hard work after a dive. Actually I think the more critical aspect is the level of supersaturation at the time the micro-nuclei are generated (work is performed). Again, as I understand the situation, without supersaturation the existance of micro-nuclei isn't an issue because they will harmlessly disipate in time. The amount of time was a major subject in the above referenced paper.

daylight · May 28, 2003

First of all, everyone that I know personally that has been bent, engaged in heavy exercise after a deco or close to the NDL.
As a result of their experiences, I attempt to limit myself to relaxing, hydrating, and recounting the dive for an hour after surfacing. I also attempt to be cautious humping cylinders or heavy stuff until my "quiet time" has expired.
It's worked so far.
Dive Safe,
Larry

Microbubbles and Shore Diving

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bwerb

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bwerb

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