Warning! Terrible experience with Happy Dive / Ankermi on Flores

We had a terrible experience diving with Ankermi on Flores. I want to share this experience to warn other divers.

Ankermi resort has some beautiful well maintained bungalows directly on the seafront. The restaurant is beautiful and serves great food (the best we had on Flores). We were really enjoying the place and were very happy we stayed there. Until we decided to do some diving...

Before diving we spoke to Kermi, the owner of the place. He seemed to be in hurry and a bit annoyed by us wanting to check the equipment. His Swiss wife was not there at the time so we were going to dive with a local dive guide. Kermi told us this guy speaks good English. The next morning the boat came, which was a local fishermen boat with no place to store the equipment properly. We were with 3 divers and our guide. Going in to the water a lot of bubbles came out one of my hoses. The dive guide told me I could dive with it, but I did not want to. There was no extra equipment so I swapped with the guide's equipment, which had no depth meter...
My buddy and I are both PADI Open Water Divers so when at the briefing (which was translated by the other, Indonesian, diver) the guide told us we would go to 30meters we told him we did not feel like going any deeper as 25 meters. That was ok, he said. So without my depth meter I decided to follow the guide. At a certain point my buddy stopped me, we were already at 32 meters and the guide was going deeper!
For the whole dive the guide was not checking on us what so ever. When we reached 50 bar we decided to go up by ourselves, the guide did not even noticed us going up...
At the boat we confronted him with this, but he did not understand what we were talking about. After only half an hour on the boat he told us to gear up again for the second dive. We told him to wait another hour, which he first did not agree to. We refused to gear up after such a short time. For the second dive we decided to check really carefully on each other for air, depth and time and to stay really close to each other. This turned out to be a life saving decision. After about 45 minutes I asked my buddy about his air: it was 70bar. Only one minute later he came to me signing 'out of air'. We started sharing air and decided to go up to do our safety stop. After 3 minutes of safety stop the guide saw us sharing air and pulled us down on our fins. He 'told' my buddy to breath on his own, because his meter still showed 60bar... But is still was not working... So we went up, the guide continued diving. At the surface my buddy could not inflate his BCD, because there was no pressure. We yelled and waved to the boat, the boatmen saw us, but did not come. We had to swim for 10 minutes...
On board I found out there was no first aid kit and no oxygen tank...

After this experience we did not want to do more diving with Happy Dive, because it did not feel save. We were really shocked by what had happened. Back at Ankermi we wanted to tell Kermi about this, but we just saw him for 5 seconds on the jetty and then he was gone...
When we saw him around the resort later that night we tried to tell him in a very calm way what had happened. Immediately he started shouting to us and he got very angry. He called us names and started threatening us and even he said he would do 'crazy things' to us and our family... He even said he would 'destroy' us when we posted a bad review on internet... All night long someone was sneaking around our bungalow, which made us feel really unsafe. The problem is that you can not leave the place easily at night, because there is very little traffic on the road.

The diving here is really beautiful with amazing corals, but don't go with Happy Dive, it is not save.

If you decide to stay at Ankermi, stay out of any discussion with the owner, he seems to be really crazy and dangerous.

Hi there Nics. Bummer about the equipment issues. I would never even get in the water without a depth gauge. I'm assuming you didn't look the boat over before getting on it to determine whether there was O2?

Out of curiosity, why did you think the DM should check on you? Or notice that you were going up unless you had told him/her that you were? You are a certified diver, yes? And you know that means you are responsible for managing your dive, including your air and your ascent.

You use the word "confronted". That isn't usually a good start to any discussion.

Can you clarify what you meant when you said "there was no pressure" to inflate your buddy's BCD. Do you mean there was no air in the tank to permit this or that it wouldn't hold air? I assume the former since you would have had to inflate it when you were at depth. And if that is the case, why didn't you manually inflate it?

Lots of questions, I guess. Other than "never dive with these guys" would you have any take-home lessons personally from all of this?

Well, if I was with a buddy I trusted, I might think about diving without a working depth gauge - I would just stay above him the whole time. But then again, I wouldn't dive if my computer wasn't working properly, and it has a depth gauge, so that point is kind of irrelevant.

If it was supposed to be a guide, maybe he was just accompanying the other diver when he continued diving. Dive guides shouldn't have to check on fully-certified divers; as a buddy group, you should check each other. A 30 minute SI for a 25 meter dive is pretty short, I'd say - an hour would probably be fine. Sounds like they were just in a rush to keep on schedule. Many of the issues were probably related to communication (e.g., the boat captain may have thought you were okay, the guide may have thought you wanted a more independent dive). And the shop can't be blamed for your buddy running out of air.

Doesn't sound like the best operation, without a lot of necessary safety equipment on the boat. The owner sounds like the one with the most blame, lying that the dive guide spoke English well and yelling/threatening when you talked to him about the issues.

However, we are hearing just one side of the issue...and there are always a few. I'd like to hear what the owner says, and I'm interested in an update from you.

We all love to indoctrinate new members into core ScubaBoard values of responsibility and self-reliance, but let's set aside the equipment issues and the way these dives were conducted for a moment. If the OP's tale is reasonably accurate, the owner's reaction was incredibly inappropriate, and is reason enough not to go there. Sometimes language barriers can create conflict out of misunderstanding, but I can't imagine a likely scenario that justifies Kermi's behavior. There is, however, always an extra element of doubt that a poster has to overcome if he signs up to complain.

Nics, why don't you fill in your profile to give us a better idea of who you are?

Nics:

...a bit annoyed by us wanting to check the equipment.

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I think you were right to stick to your guns about that. When deciding whether to patronize a business, as a customer you have every right to inspect equipment, ask questions etc etc. If the business wants your trade, and is confident in the quality of service they provide, then they should have no qualms about that.

That said, be mindful that a busy operator may not have time to drop everything and give every discerning potential customer a guided tour upon demand. Be realistic about this - an make sure you interpret the 'helpfulness' of a dive operator correctly.

In most cases 'annoyance' tends to result from how a reasonable request is made.. rather than the request itself.

Nics:

The next morning the boat came, which was a local fishermen boat with no place to store the equipment properly.

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That's not unusual for many locations, especially in Asia and especially in remote locations. Again, the nature of the dive boat is something that you can check out prior to committing to diving with an operator. If you want a fully-fitted, custom-made dive boat, then you should include that in your criteria for selection of a dive center - and appreciate that there may be a cost differential between operators due to that provision.

I've enjoyed more that a few dives from 'non-specialist' boats - there's a sense of adventure in doing so... and in some cases, chartering a local fishing boat, to venture off and explore new sites away from the crowds is a really joyful 'return to the grass-roots' style of diving.

Nics:

Going in to the water a lot of bubbles came out one of my hoses. The dive guide told me I could dive with it, but I did not want to. There was no extra equipment so I swapped with the guide's equipment, which had no depth meter...

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I'm always surprised by a dive operator that doesn't carry a spare set of equipment and/or replacements on a scheduled dive trip. To do so is both prudent business sense (as a gear malfunction will cost them money due to lost dives) and customer service (as missing a dive will infuriate a customer like nothing else).

Again, that's another criteria to add to your 'check-list' when appraising potential dive operators. Ask in advance of booking...

What YOU can do, as a responsible diver, is check your equipment for functionality BEFORE the boat leaves. Either at the dive center, or when you first get onto the boat, assemble and check your kit. That should identify most faults, if present, and allow the dive operator to rectify an issue before it is too late.

I work in the scuba industry, and I rarely see divers 'take responsibility' for their kit at an early stage. People normally get on the boat with their brains in neutral, enjoying the sun bathing and chit-chat etc.... not 'waking up' and 'becoming divers' until they are on top of the dive site. That's too little, too late.

Nics:

My buddy and I are both PADI Open Water Divers....we told him we did not feel like going any deeper as 25 meters....That was ok, he said.....we were already at 32 meters and the guide was going deeper!

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If you personal depth limit was clearly communicated and agreed pre-dive, then exceeding it was a clear betrayal of trust and contrary to the most elemental safe diving practices (plan your dive - dive your plan). It was unprofessional... unsafe.... of your divemaster/guide to do that.

That said, your buddy did also have a depth gauge. Using proper buddy procedures, effective situational awareness and good communication should have kept you above your maximum desired/planned depth. The blame is not entirely with the guide, as you have a personal responsibility to monitor/check your depth. Even without a personal depth gauge - your 'buddy team' had one... so buddy procedures could have been better.

Nics:

For the whole dive the guide was not checking on us what so ever.

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There has been some interesting threads/debates on the board recently, concerned with the 'responsibilities of a divemaster'. The issue of being supervised/checked is really open to debate.

Nics:

When we reached 50 bar we decided to go up by ourselves, the guide did not even noticed us going up...

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You don't mention what happened exactly here. Did you make any effort to communicate with the guide? Or could you not get the guide's attention at all?

If you were monitoring your gauges, you would have seen your air approaching the minimum - giving you adequate time to pre-warn the guide that you were nearing your reserve. It helps to be pro-active with your gas management... and the communication of that. That gives you much longer to gain the guide's attention and fore-warn them of the impending 'end-of-dive'.

Nics:

At the boat we confronted him with this, but he did not understand what we were talking about.

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A language issue... or did he not understand the issue of ascending with a minimum reserve. You don't make that clear...

"Confronting" sounds harsh... if that is what you did, it probably didn't help maintain a positive relationship between yourselves and the guide. A diplomatic approach, with emphasis on establishing desired procedures is positive. A rebuke is negative and does little to change behavior - especially given Asian cultural sensitivities.

Cultural awareness is important when travelling abroad. In Asia, it is critical not to make someone 'lose face'. In Western society it is acceptable to make a direct complaint and/or confront someone publicly over a perceived failing. That is most certainly not done in most Asian cultures.

Nics:

After only half an hour on the boat he told us to gear up again for the second dive. We told him to wait another hour, which he first did not agree to. We refused to gear up after such a short time.

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Again, that sounds quite confrontational...

Did you plan your repetitive dives in advance? Had you established and agreed a minimum surface interval before dive #1?

Whilst a minimum surface interval of 1 hour is 'typical', it isn't necessarily mandatory. A quick review of your PADI tables theory will remind you of that.

If you have a preference to always do a minimum 1 hour surface interval (regardless of tables/computer), then it would help to communicate that preference in advance of diving. The dive operator will have a diving schedule - which may, or may not, be able to cater for your individual preferences. It may not be possible for the dive operator to change their schedule 'on-the-fly' to cater for those preferences if they weren't forewarned of them at an appropriately early stage.

The operator may have subsequent trips booked - and a delay to your schedule could impact on the service they provide to other customers.

You also need to consider that there may be genuine safety reasons for a specific dive schedule to be adopted - the existence of currents/tides etc. In combination with that, appreciate that a local dive guide may not have satisfactory English language skills to explain those issues.... or may not be inclined to do so if you have previously rebuked/alienated/offended them.

Nics:

For the second dive we decided to check really carefully on each other for air, depth and time and to stay really close to each other. This turned out to be a life saving decision.

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It's a life saving practice on every dive...

Nics:

.... he came to me signing 'out of air'. We started sharing air...the guide saw us sharing air and pulled us down on our fins. He 'told' my buddy to breath on his own, because his meter still showed 60bar...

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SPGs can fail/stick. That's an important lesson learned... and to be aware of.

I'm not sure why the guide would choose to interrupt an air-sharing (emergency) ascent. If two divers are managing an incident effectively, then it's better to simply stay close by, observe and be ready to help if necessary. A guide, or any other diver tempted to intervene, should be aware that interrupting such a procedure can increase stress and confusion for those involved - thus decreasing safety.

That said, many divemasters/instructors might opt to communicate with those involved and clarify the nature of the situation... especially with novice/inexperienced divers.

Are you sure that the guide was signalling your buddy to "breath on his own", or could you have misinterpreted the communication? Could the guide have been simply trying to clarify why you were sharing air, when the SPG was reading an adequate air supply for ascent?

Nics:

So we went up, the guide continued diving.

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It isn't really clear what happened here...

If the guide observed you to the surface and saw that you obtained buoyancy... then it isn't unreasonable for him to return to the other diver and continue the dive. However, he should definitely have satisfied himself that you were safe, before recommencing. Are you sure he didn't do that?

Also, bear in mind that the guide also had another diver to supervise - his direct buddy on that dive. Where was that diver? Having satisfied himself about the safety of your buddy team, it is obvious that the guide's priority would be to return to/focus upon the other solitary diver in the water at the time...

Nics:

At the surface my buddy could not inflate his BCD, because there was no pressure.

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There are a number of options to achieve positive buoyancy at the surface - inflation via LPI is merely the first (most convenient) of those options.

It is incorrect to say that your buddy "could not inflate his BCD, because there was no pressure". He could inflate it, as he was taught on his Open Water course, with oral inflation.

Nics:

We yelled and waved to the boat, the boatmen saw us, but did not come. We had to swim for 10 minutes...

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Firstly, it isn't obligatory for a boat to pick-up divers. Indeed, there may be genuine reasons, including safety factors, that mean they cannot.

In that respect, I am unsure whether your mention of this is meant to indicate a safety issue or a customer service grievance?

You surfaced, unplanned, a short distance from the boat. Not a big deal. The boat didn't rush over to pick you up. Not a big deal.

Unless you have a genuine safety concern (which isn't obvious from what you've described), then it seems like you just had over-expectations of being pampered - and were disappointed at having to make a short, 10 minute, swim across the surface?

Was this meant/planned/communicated to be a 'drift dive'? i.e. you wouldn't return to the boat - it would pick you up. If not, then surfacing early is obviously going to entail a surface swim to the boat....

The lesson to be learned: Monitor your gas on the dive... and if you don't want to surface swim....be aware of your gas supply in relation to the location of your dive boat. Signal to 'turn the dive' with sufficient gas to return to the boat and ascend there. Simple.

Nics:

On board I found out there was no first aid kit and no oxygen tank...

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There's many parts of the world where such provision is not mandatory by legislation. In developing countries, it is quite likely that no such legislation exists. Be cognizant of that reality.

A dive operator that is affiliated with a training agency (i.e. a "PADI Dive Resort") may have an obligation to provide first aid/O2 as part of their affiliation/membership to that agency. If the provision of first aid/O2 isn't stipulated by a national legislation, or agency membership, then the operator isn't mandated to provide it.

In some locations, the provision of O2 is the exception, not the norm... and you'll typically pay more to dive with the operators who voluntarily choose to provide services beyond the minimum standards that are mandated.

Again, if your preference is to dive with an operator that does provide it (voluntarily, if not stipulated), then you need to check that provision in advance. Ask about that provision when selecting/assessing the dive operators available. As it stands, the dive operator may not have been 'failing' to provide first aid/O2... but you may have been 'failing' in your assumption that they would.

In essence:... don't make assumptions...confirm what services are provided...and be aware that you typically get what you pay for.

Nics:

When we saw him around the resort later that night we tried to tell him in a very calm way what had happened. Immediately he started shouting to us and he got very angry. He called us names and started threatening us and even he said he would do 'crazy things' to us and our family... He even said he would 'destroy' us when we posted a bad review on internet...

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Personally, I always believe that there are two sides to every story. I'd like to hear the other side to this story.

You may have been 'calm' in your communication, but what you said to him obviously provoked a very strong reaction. Assuming that mental illness wasn't a factor, it is unusual for anyone to react belligerently towards genuine, well-intended and positive feedback.

The fact that you mention "posting a bad review on the internet", seems to indicate that you did, indeed, make threats of your own... even if you made them "calmly". To me, that raises the distinct possibility that the hostility wasn't as one-sided as you are trying to make out....

The fact that you've (seemingly) joined this forum with the sole intention of posting that bad review... and have also done so on several other forums, including Lonely Planet, could also be interpreted as a level of hostility... of taking revenge. Again, a factor that can be interpreted by readers which casts some doubt on the fact that you are blaming the dive operator entirely for a break-down in positive relations.

Nics, it all sounds like a stressful dive day and a distressing follow-up! There is a certain charm to tucked away little resorts like Ankermi's place, but their very remoteness means that getting professional dive guides whose language skills are excellent is rare. In Indonesia as elsewhere in SE Asia, the culture demands that the host-locals simply tell the visitors what they want to hear, just to keep them happy, even if it's not the truth and the reality comes back to bite later. I'm pretty sure that your local guide didn't understand that you wanted HIM to stay shallow and simply agreed with your plan for yourselves merely to keep you happy.

The issue of the poorly maintained equipment is again partly a function of remoteness and partly a function of a "fix things only after they break" mentality. I probably wouldn't have done even one dive with rental equipment at a place like that, and I certainly wouldn't rely on any Indonesian guide for dive planning or my personal safety. They are great at spotting marine life (which is very important to me, so I do value it highly), but they're fairly useless when it comes to duty of care or any other professional-level behavior.

Finally, the attitude of the resort owner is very disturbing. That's no way to treat guests, no matter what the problem is or who is at fault (even if the guests are guilty of over-stating the issues).

*cough* Seagull *cough*

TripAdvisor has very good things to say about the hotel in general but not much detail has been given to the diving side of things.

Sounds like the guide was a ringer to replace somebody else.

Equipment failures can and do happen. It is possible but unlikely that this is the first time for the SPG to stick and once they start, it's the trashcan... yet interestingly it didn't appear to have happened on the first dive.

Dealing with complaints is for me the hardest part of this job. Sometimes those complaints are justified and sometimes they are not. In diving specifically, the customer is not always right but the trick is to remain communicative- and it sounds like the owner wasn't.

MMM:

Hi there Nics. Bummer about the equipment issues. I would never even get in the water without a depth gauge. I'm assuming you didn't look the boat over before getting on it to determine whether there was O2?

Out of curiosity, why did you think the DM should check on you? Or notice that you were going up unless you had told him/her that you were? You are a certified diver, yes? And you know that means you are responsible for managing your dive, including your air and your ascent.

You use the word "confronted". That isn't usually a good start to any discussion.

Can you clarify what you meant when you said "there was no pressure" to inflate your buddy's BCD. Do you mean there was no air in the tank to permit this or that it wouldn't hold air? I assume the former since you would have had to inflate it when you were at depth. And if that is the case, why didn't you manually inflate it?

Lots of questions, I guess. Other than "never dive with these guys" would you have any take-home lessons personally from all of this?

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About the ´confronted´ I used the wrong word in this (I'm not a native English-speaker) I mean we just wanted to talk about it, in a calm way. As I'm part Asian and raised by my Indonesian grandmother I know how to deal with 'Asian communication' (on the other hand I'm part Dutch and raised in the Netherlands which makes my communication sometimes a bit 'direct' which I'm fully aware of, specially in Asia).

Ofcourse my buddy inflated his BCD manually, but I was trying to tell that definitely something was wrong with the equipment.

There was still air in the tank, but the pressure went down to zero after one breath and then building up slowly again to 60 bar (this started at 70 bar, we checked the meter and in the start there was not such problem).

I sure learned lots of lessons there. It made us a lot more aware divers and made us decide to get our PADI Advanced and Rescue-diver certification. Now we will check on forehand for O2 and first aid kit. When we dived later that trip at Bunaken Island the shop owners were really surprised on us asking so many questions as open water divers....
And probably I will get my own computer for the next trip

I know that a lot of things are you're own responsibility. Although, when you're only certified as an Open Water Diver not much attention is paid to that responsibility during the course (at least not in my case).

I expected the divemaster to keep an eye on us, because the owner of the place told us on forehand the divemaster would do so.

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DevonDiver:

...

That said, be mindful that a busy operator may not have time to drop everything and give every discerning potential customer a guided tour upon demand. Be realistic about this - an make sure you interpret the 'helpfulness' of a dive operator correctly.

In most cases 'annoyance' tends to result from how a reasonable request is made.. rather than the request itself.

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In this case the operator was not busy at all, he had just one other diver for the whole week and only two bungalows with guests.

DevonDiver:

...

I've enjoyed more that a few dives from 'non-specialist' boats - there's a sense of adventure in doing so... and in some cases, chartering a local fishing boat, to venture off and explore new sites away from the crowds is a really joyful 'return to the grass-roots' style of diving.

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It sure has some sense of adventure and there is a certain charm to it... Actually this is not a 'problem' for me, it is just part of the story and it might explain why the equipment was in poor condition...

DevonDiver:

That said, your buddy did also have a depth gauge. Using proper buddy procedures, effective situational awareness and good communication should have kept you above your maximum desired/planned depth. The blame is not entirely with the guide, as you have a personal responsibility to monitor/check your depth. Even without a personal depth gauge - your 'buddy team' had one... so buddy procedures could have been better.

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True. We improved on that one. But still as not so experienced divers you feel uncertain about 'leaving' the divemaster.

DevonDiver:

There has been some interesting threads/debates on the board recently, concerned with the 'responsibilities of a divemaster'. The issue of being supervised/checked is really open to debate.

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We were told on forehand (by the owner) that the divemaster would check on us during the dive. We asked for that because we had quite a hard diving experience on the dive before in Komodo (crazy currents).

DevonDiver:

You don't mention what happened exactly here. Did you make any effort to communicate with the guide? Or could you not get the guide's attention at all?

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We could not get his attention at all. We tried to communicate. Next time diving we will bring something to 'bang' to the tank.

DevonDiver:

Again, that sounds quite confrontational...

Did you plan your repetitive dives in advance? Had you established and agreed a minimum surface interval before dive #1?

Whilst a minimum surface interval of 1 hour is 'typical', it isn't necessarily mandatory. A quick review of your PADI tables theory will remind you of that.


If you have a preference to always do a minimum 1 hour surface interval (regardless of tables/computer), then it would help to communicate that preference in advance of diving. The dive operator will have a diving schedule - which may, or may not, be able to cater for your individual preferences. It may not be possible for the dive operator to change their schedule 'on-the-fly' to cater for those preferences if they weren't forewarned of them at an appropriately early stage.

The operator may have subsequent trips booked - and a delay to your schedule could impact on the service they provide to other customers.

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The owner of the shop told us the day before that we would have a 1,5 hour break between dives. And ofcourse we didn't 'confront' the guy in a harsh way. We tried to ask him polite... and told him we were still to tired to dive after half an hour.
There were no other trips or dives booked since we and the other diver were the only ones for the whole week.

DevonDiver:

Are you sure that the guide was signalling your buddy to "breath on his own", or could you have misinterpreted the communication? Could the guide have been simply trying to clarify why you were sharing air, when the SPG was reading an adequate air supply for ascent?

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Well, he took the regulator (octopus) out of my buddy's mouth and offered him his own regulator instead.

DevonDiver:

Also, bear in mind that the guide also had another diver to supervise - his direct buddy on that dive. Where was that diver? Having satisfied himself about the safety of your buddy team, it is obvious that the guide's priority would be to return to/focus upon the other solitary diver in the water at the time...

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The other diver was right next to us, she noticed us sharing air before the guide did... And she checked on us if we were ok.

DevonDiver:

Was this meant/planned/communicated to be a 'drift dive'? i.e. you wouldn't return to the boat - it would pick you up. If not, then surfacing early is obviously going to entail a surface swim to the boat....

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It was planned to be a drift dive. There was also current on the surface which made swimming really hard.

DevonDiver:

There's many parts of the world where such provision is not mandatory by legislation. In developing countries, it is quite likely that no such legislation exists. Be cognizant of that reality.

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Ok. That I didn't know. But Happy Dive promotes itself whit 'safety first' and 'Swiss-run, Swiss safety standards', so that created some expectations of good safety standards.

DevonDiver:

In essence:... don't make assumptions...confirm what services are provided...and be aware that you typically get what you pay for.

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Yep. I know that by now. Thank god it did not take lives to learn these lessons. We have never chosen the cheapest diveshop, we are aware that extra costs translate into extra quality, most of the times at least.

DevonDiver:

You may have been 'calm' in your communication, but what you said to him obviously provoked a very strong reaction. Assuming that mental illness wasn't a factor, it is unusual for anyone to react belligerently towards genuine, well-intended and positive feedback.

The fact that you mention "posting a bad review on the internet", seems to indicate that you did, indeed, make threats of your own... even if you made them "calmly". To me, that raises the distinct possibility that the hostility wasn't as one-sided as you are trying to make out....

The fact that you've (seemingly) joined this forum with the sole intention of posting that bad review... and have also done so on several other forums, including Lonely Planet, could also be interpreted as a level of hostility... of taking revenge. Again, a factor that can be interpreted by readers which casts some doubt on the fact that you are blaming the dive operator entirely for a break-down in positive relations.

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Well, actually we did not get to tell him the full story of what happened. He got hostile immediately when we asked him if we could talk to him for some minutes. We did not intend to post anything on internet at all and didn't start about that (we did not make any threats at all and did not approach him in an angry or hostile way, we wanted to give some feedback and wanted him to check and repair or replace the equipment), he brought up the subject (and gave us the idea of doing so). And yes I post this on many forums to warn other divers and non-diver guest. I felt really threatened (and still do) and I want to warn others, because I think accidents can happen easily in Ankermi and I feel the owner is a dangerous person.

Nic, thanks for clearing up my questions. It does help differentiate between the 'customer service dissatisfaction' and the 'safety issues'.

It's fair that you promulgated this warning, however, such warnings shouldn't over-stress safety issues when they are actually customer service grievances. Feeling 'unsafe' is not the same as being 'unsafe'... and there are certain baselines of self-responsibility and capability that are reasonably expected of you as a diver. Crying "foul" when a diver operator doesn't automatically assume those responsibilities, just because you choose to abdicate them is not necessarily their failing.

As mentioned, there's a whole bunch of recent threads about 'divemaster responsibility' and 'diver responsibility'. IMHO, the base-line is that an Open Water diver is "supervised to conduct dives, with an equally or higher qualified buddy, without professional supervision".

Bearing in mind that an operation could provide adequate (as per agency standards) supervision simply by having a divemaster conducting their supervision from the dive boat (out-of-water supervision)... it shows that everything beyond that is a bonus. That's just a perspective...but it is worth thinking about.

What I read, following your clarification, is that the operator does employ a dive guide who lacks vigilance in the water and doesn't provide a high standard of customer service. His actions during the OOA incident were far from textbook, and perhaps indicate either a lack of experience or a lack of effective professional training. That said, he did nothing to 'endanger' you, but could have done more to reassure and support you (customer service, not safety - depending upon your perspective of a divemaster's role).

At this stage, I'd ask... was he represented as a Dive MASTER, or a Dive GUIDE?

A divemaster being someone who holds a professional qualification at ISO Level 3 to supervise certified divers. A diveguide being someone who leads divers on an underwater tour, but doesn't necessarily hold a supervisory diving qualification.

Again, when selecting a dive operator to use, it is wise not to assume that your 'guide' is necessarily a qualified divemaster. In many parts of the world, diveguides are used to lead tours - often they aren't trained beyond open-water level, but may have extensive experience as divers. However, being a good diver is not the same thing as being a good dive supervisor...

What really matters is that the service/s assured by the dive center manager were not fulfilled by their staff on the boat. If you did ask and were answered, then you have a legitimate complaint. Quite simply, you did not get the service that you paid for.

A legitimate complaint... but an emphasis on poor service, rather than the shock value of safety, would be more accurate and fair.

I'd still like to hear the dive operators' perspective. It's bad management practice if he wasn't interested to hear about the performance of his staff.

Perhaps you'd care to email him and invite him to join this thread to answer the criticism? That'd be fair... and some good may come of it.

Actually, as I'm rereading everything my main complaint is about the owner of the dive shop, his reaction is what shocked me deeply and he gave me a real unsafe feeling after we were done diving (I really feared he would do us physical harm). Of course things can go wrong during diving, of course equipment can fail. And yes, I should have taken more responsibility (in a way it was good because I learned a lot). BUT is should never have posted this if Kermi didn't threaten us and our families and if he didn't call us names. I still feel slightly afraid and don't want to reveal my full identity because of this. Therefore I don't feel like emailing him to join this thread... (which, as you mention, might be a good idea)