new fin concept

[notation]

Is there someone interested in helping me develop a new fin design concept?

It looks like the fin would have 2x more power with nearly omni-directional kick thrust.

This might be difficult to explain in a public forum, so please include private contact information and at what level you can participate.

General comments are appreciated!

 

[Quero]

General comments: I would not provide private contact information to somebody I know nothing whatever about. Even if you don't want to disclose the details of your idea, you could offer some insight into your own expertise or background that would help convince people that you're not just a phisherman of some sort. Are you a fluid dynamics engineer, for example? Are you even a scuba diver? What has prompted your investigation into developing this sort of product?

 

[buddhasummer]

General comments: I would not provide private contact information to somebody I know nothing whatever about. Even if you don't want to disclose the details of your idea, you could offer some insight into your own expertise or background that would help convince people that you're not just a phisherman of some sort. Are you a fluid dynamics engineer, for example? Are you even a scuba diver? What has prompted your investigation into developing this sort of product?

Thanks, I learnt a new word today "phisherman".

 

[notation]

General comments: I would not provide private contact information to somebody I know nothing whatever about. Even if you don't want to disclose the details of your idea, you could offer some insight into your own expertise or background that would help convince people that you're not just a phisherman of some sort. Are you a fluid dynamics engineer, for example? Are you even a scuba diver? What has prompted your investigation into developing this sort of product?

Are you an engineer or legal expert? I did work for Sam Raymond (Benthos) some years ago.

Quite frankly though, I'd be most interested to learn if there really is a need for an improved fin. What's your opinion?

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Are you an engineer or legal expert?

Yes, actually.

I'd be most interested to learn if there really is a need for an improved fin.

So you've supposedly done work for an underwater communications tech company and you're soliciting partners for developing a concept you've got, but you're not sure if there's a "need" for the concept? If you had a fin design that magically produces twice the thrust without unduly taxing the human leg to which it would be attached, while lending itself to that same structure being able to easily direct the thrust, I imagine you wouldn't be asking such an uninformed question.

That said, this forum has a PM function: that's all the private contact info you merit.

 

[danvolker]

Are you an engineer or legal expert? I did work for Sam Raymond (Benthos) some years ago.

Quite frankly though, I'd be most interested to learn if there really is a need for an improved fin. What's your opinion?

My opinion..... Most traditional Scuba fins are very poor in power transfer and efficiency....Split fins are among the worst, but have been accepted because they act like a smaller gear, and a majority of divers do not know the proper kick shape to use a "larger" gear effectively, without fatiguing their muscles, or cramping them...SP Jet fins would be the caricature of this issue for the normal recreational diver. While actual skill at proper kick cycle and kick shape would allow a diver with a average strength and fitness level to enjoy the use of a Scuba pro Jetfin, there are far more technologically superior designs...

Excellerator Force Fins are one way to improve on the Jets in this manner...and another is with the carbon fiber blades of Freediving fins like the Mustang C4's or the composite fins like the DiveR freediving fins...This evolution benefits from custom foot pockets to improve power transfer from the leg to ankle, and then to the foot and then the blade.....The C4's actually have a right and left foot, and are meant to be further customized even with orthotics --like running shoes....
While the DiveR and C4's are technologically far superior to jet fins, the precision control required for Exploration level cave or shipwreck penetrations, removes the freedive fin length from the party, and this leaves only the fins with optimal precision control--and here the Excellerators by Force Fin should be looked at as a huge jump forward in technology.

I am not an engineer...think of me as more of a Test Pilot....with well over a dozen of the supposedly BEST fins there are, in my garage.....

 

[notation]

While the DiveR and C4's are technologically far superior to jet fins, the precision control required for Exploration level cave or shipwreck penetrations, removes the freedive fin length from the party, and this leaves only the fins with optimal precision control--and here the Excellerators by Force Fin should be looked at as a huge jump forward in technology.

I am not an engineer...think of me as more of a Test Pilot....with well over a dozen of the supposedly BEST fins there are, in my garage.....

Thank you for your expert comments.

The Excellerator's and warp1's look to be more advanced, at least fluid-mechanically, than the traditional Scuba fin. And the foot pockets seem to be another issue altogether.

No doubt the US Navy is working on robotic leg assists!

All Scuba fins are pretty much like a paddle though. Some of the more advanced (and expensive) fins are shaped to enhance boundary layers and flow. Those must be the ones in your garage! Well, what if you could combine the attributes of all those fins into one?

I've got an idea and I'd like to get it off the drawing board. What would you suggest? Incorporate? Look for investors? File a patent application? Make a working model? I've tested the concept and the fluidics are more like a propellor than a paddle, but the basic fin design is intact.

Yeah... you can be the Test Pilot.

 

[00wabbit]

I"m a product designer if you need help creating concept designs and 3d models of your idea to present.
You really need to build a prototype of your idea and test it. If it works then work on the patent process. After patenting then you can worry about investors etc.

First thing first is make sure it really works.

There is a variety of ways to do this and it really depends on your design. You could hand carve a model and then use that to have it cast in a flexible urethane material. Then you can use this to conduct in water tests.

 

[Just_Me]

I would also think that at some point someone will need to bring in a measured matrix from fin type comparison. All I have ever seen is opinion. A simple chart showing energy in vs energy out of the top models against your new design would definitely be a great launch platform.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Given that scuba diving carries with it a certain amount of risk and expense, long time practitioners typically gravitate towards technology that is tried-n-true in terms of reliability, serviceability, and performance. Yet, growth within the scuba diving equipment industry is often driven by innovation and development of new product designs. The history of the split fin idea (Nature's Wing) may provide some useful guidance beyond just that of the engineering itself. I find it interesting how the development and licensing allowed it to carve out a solid stance in the market. People may differ on its' merits vs more traditional designs, but there is no denying that many people love these products and enjoy some benefit from owning them. If your ideas translate well to new real-world product designs, then looking at the successes and failures of past endeavors may help with road-mapping a path forward. I would also undertake a thorough review of any existing patents in the neighborhood. You never know; someone may have already been here before.

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