If I should die while diving.

[patymeboy]

When Im in the briny deep I think to take the biggest sleep
and swim off where great whites frolic with mermaids and dolphins tag along
But for now the the unseen companion with tangled teath keeps his distance
the curent gives resistance to my churning fins that propel me across the sand bed
I shall not sleep here tonight but touch the sea floor as if to knock on wood and
say a prayer for those who passed this way already and swim in another ocean

 

[Wozzer]

I'm already a motorcyclist - just looking for a place in st louis to get my OW cert, this thread is making me feel like I need a will...

 

[patymeboy]

I'm already a motorcyclist - just looking for a place in st louis to get my OW cert, this thread is making me feel like I need a will...

Many a mate took a last swig of rum and then turned to a tuna fish twice
saying hand me a grip of an old sailing ship, put the kiss of the dawn on my lips
with some luck tonight I might have her at my finger tips.
so ye sweepers and cleaners with no misdemeaners come try the triangle out there

 

[lamont]

I have read your message several times over the years but never felt like replying but I do now. Your message is well intended but it is a little naive (please take no offense - I just do not know another word) in describing a terrible episode both in the life and death of the diver and and the surviving family and friends of the diver. My very best friend died last September while diving. I was on the boat when his buddy returned to say he was dead on the wreck. Another diver had to go and get him and we had to take him into port. I got a bitter lesson there. Notifying the family is not like it is done on TV. The police offered me a ride to go and tell his wife he was dead - they don't want to do it and it is more compassionate if a friend does. Hearing the wail and seeing his wife wither and crumble in front of my eyes is something burned into my memory even now. We buried him that week. There is not a day that I have not thought about the pain that woman suffered. For me, her interest is first and foremost. My friend is dead and I do not think rummaging around into the accident will benefit anyone enough to justify the hurt it will cause to so many. This is not something to save for the funeral. No one should say that unless they have been to one. I may not know what the diver thinks or wants at death (none of us really do) but from being this close to a diver's death, I do not think any of us should be giving instructions on how others should behave. You are dead and it is for the survivors to find their way without you. I have come to say that only the diver and God really know what happened and neither is talking to us.

If we held to that standard uniformly for all incidents then we'd never gain any information about how scuba divers die and we'd keep on making the same mistakes.

 

[u/w icarus]

morbid though it may seem, i had fleeting thoughts of dying underwater when i started diving.

a dramatic way to die. sure. i do not wish it, though, for my buddy's sake. but in case it does happen to me... i share Uncle Pug's sentiments.

You know what? After all these years I still have those same thoughts sometimes. Its not a death wish or anything, more of like a "if I had to go, I wouldnt mind going like this."

 

[sleepdiver]

Just to learn how someone died is not a right of the diving community. Unless a family wants to conduct an investigation or the death is suspicious in some way, there is no mandatory reason for autopsy and even if there was one, divers should not presume that they have some right to that information. They don't.

Too often, members of the community think they have some special right to information about accidents on the theory they will learn from it. Such a right does not exist and even if it did, the privacy interests of the family prevail over it.

As an aside, this board is full of incredible speculative analysis of accidents based on none or very little information - often hearsay. It is hard to believe the dive community, on a board like this, can benefit from such information.

 

[Cacia]

Just to learn how someone died is not a right of the diving community.

It IS the right of a free citizen to speculate and formulate theories, and frankly anyone who does not have this degree of intellectual curiosity, probably should find a different hobby.

 

[DandyDon]

Sleepdiver, I appreciate you feelings, even tho I'm more in line with Catherine's thinking - if you have any further comments, would you start a thread on Support?

 

[Doubles]

Sleepdiver

I agree with your comments on speculation. There are too many Monday morning quarterbacks around here. But even with speculation there is education. I wish the speculators would be patient until more data is released and real analysis could be done. But speculation is a feature of the human species.

I think you may want to recheck your facts on autopsy requirements. Laws for such things vary by jurisdiction and and many areas have multiple jurisdictions or laws that may apply.

I am with Uncle Pug and many others. In a former career I investigated (too) many boating accidents where there were fatalities. The culture where I live loss of life is always traumatic. Some families will want to know why, others will not. There will be those that dislike any investigation and others that will clamor for more thorough ones.

I thank Uncle Pug again for the thread and if I go while diving then I would have gone doing something I really enjoyed. But rest assured that if it happens to me while diving, I did not go quietly..you may not hear me scream at 200 feet but you heard me struggling to survive. And if I failed to survive, I will say it right now that it would mean that I did something wrong. Thats my belief and anyone here can feel free to discuss it anyway they want. Even the Monday morning QB's.

I certainly hope its a long time before I make it to Davy Jones' Locker

Cheers

Steve

Those that go down to the sea in ships.......

edit - to the mods - if this is too much of a topic hijack then feel free to delete it

 

[lamont]

Sleepdiver

I agree with your comments on speculation. There are too many Monday morning quarterbacks around here. But even with speculation there is education. I wish the speculators would be patient until more data is released and real analysis could be done. But speculation is a feature of the human species.

You appear to live in this strange fantasy world where there are authorities responsible for digging down to the bottom of every scuba diving fatality, interviewing all the participants, going over the equipment and writing up a dispassionate and accurate analysis. No such agency actually exists. The rescuers on the scene are mostly concerned with getting enough information to hand off to the cops and the doctors. The doctors and cops are mostly interested in ruling out foul play and then determining if it was equipment malfunction (possible lawsuit) or natural causes (drowning, embolism, etc).

Nobody official involved cares about accident analysis and preventing future incidents. There is no authority figure to look to. We are alone.

You can wait patiently and you will never see the data and analysis that you would like to see.

I think you may want to recheck your facts on autopsy requirements. Laws for such things vary by jurisdiction and and many areas have multiple jurisdictions or laws that may apply.

The results of autopsies are almost worthless for accident analysis. The incident I was involved in it was useful to get the autopsy results since it was death by embolism and meant that she was gone before we ever got to her, which helps with rescuer guilt. The autopsy only confirmed some minor factual details in the accident chain, though, and didn't do much in terms of the actual accident analysis. Most of the mistakes on the dive were made long before the lung injury occurred.

"Don't speculate until we get the autopsy!" and "Don't speculate, let the authorities do the investigation!" are completely naive ways to approach accident analysis of scuba diving fatalities. It seems to assume a world-view where some authority / parental organization will always be responsible. I know that in the incident that I was involved in I know a lot more than the medical examiner, the cops, the coast guard/EMTs or anyone else "official" about what happened. In real life nobody has the official job of asking "why did this occur?" The "facts" will likely never come out, and there will never be a publication of an accident analysis. For the incident that I was involved in the only person who wrote up anything resembling an accident analysis was me. I was in a good position because I towed the gear in to shore while escorting the buddy and getting a full debrief. As the basis of real accident analysis that is flawed, but it doesn't get any better.