Local takes a hit

[nereas]

All well and good, but do take into account that this is the "Hawaii O'Hana" subsection, and when the OP posted here, it was under the assumption that anyone reading/commenting on the post was a regular on here and knew his history/stats. If he had posted on a general section or the DAN section, I can see the problem of not giving enough details.

Also, yet again, we are the Hawaii O'Hana, we like warm and fuzzies from across the globe if you post here!:sappy:

OK Bruddahs (and Sistahs). I will try to sound more courteous and Hawaiian-like!:sappy:

[What an interesting place Hawai'i must be! I actually had a job offer in Honolulu not long ago, which regretably I turned down. Maybe next time ... .]

Here are some more details I can share to stave off inter-member spats.

Myself (for those who don't know);

36, 5'9", 175lbs, Active duty military.
Run, walk, hike, dive (lots)

experience
2 years diving
over 200 dives
dives from charter boat, shore, kayak and the "Rubber Ducky"
approx 40 technical dives to include
Deepest dive to date 181fsw
Longest dive to date 2hour 31min
Dive rec and tech
-wreck penetration
-wreck exploration
-surveys
-pure fun
Certs up to
PADI MD
NAUI Tech, Advanced nitrox, Deco procedures, Helitrox, Technical Wreck Penetration andTrimix I (1 dive left)

The dives in question (25% in my tanks, but diving as 21%)
Gear - doubles, with my normal full tech esemble
Purpose of dives- one buddy adjusting trim for a different set of doubles and general skill practice (s-drills, v-drills, etc) for the 3 of us all done within rec limits.
Dive #1 - Sea Tiger
101fsw max 90fsw avg - 20 min bottom time with nice slow ascent
2 minutes up to 50fsw, 3 min up to 20fsw and then 3min SS
1hour 33 min safety stop (relaxed sitting on boat and shore and drinking water)
Dive #2 - Kewalo pipe
61fsw max - 46fsw avg - 39 min bottom time with nice slow ascent
1 minute up to 30fsw, 1 min up to 20fsw and 3 min SS

--Edited to add --
My ears clear on auto and I had no problems clearing and no ear pain during or after the dive. No ear pain during ordeal either.
-----

Seas were about 2-4 foot that day so little effort on surface and minimal surge/current on the dives.

I always drink water and had a good breakfast that morning.

Hope this clears some up.

By the way--Thanks again to all the support from everybody. I am trying to keep you up as I get more information (MRI scheduled this week and Audiology next week). If they find anything I will pass it on. I haven't been on much in the last few days becasuse I am just trying to catch back up at work as Monday was my first day after the incident.

Rockjock, buddy, I ran your data thru my deco software at home after work, and here is what I got --

EAN25 / MOD 100 / Aver D 90 / BT 20 min

Deco on back-gas required:

1st stop 50 (1 min)
2nd stop 40 (1 min)
3rd stop 30 (1 min)
Final stop 20 (15 mins)

Total dive time 40 mins

According to this, a fairly conservative program, I will admit, 12 mins of deco were likely omitted.

The rule then would have been for 24-48 hours of surface interval before diving again.

Had the required deco time been accomplished, then the min surface interval would have been 2 to 3 hours before the 2nd dive because the N2 loading appears to have been at the limits.

This is what I suspect was problematic with these dives:

1) Deco time insufficient
2) Surface interval time insufficient
3) Bottom mix choice (ideal would be TMX 30/30, 2nd place EAN36, 3rd place EAN32)
4) Deco mix choice (ideal would be either EAN 50 or 100% O2)

Rockjock, I hope you get well soon and feel better. You need better deco software however, and/or you need to set it to a more conservative setting. None of us is simply 21 anymore, and therefore USN tables simply do not work.

Your humble servant, NEREAS

 

[rockjock3]

OK Bruddahs (and Sistahs). I will try to sound more courteous and Hawaiian-like!:sappy:

[What an interesting place Hawai'i must be! I actually had a job offer in Honolulu not long ago, which regretably I turned down. Maybe next time ... .]



Rockjock, buddy, I ran your data thru my deco software at home after work, and here is what I got --

EAN25 / MOD 100 / Aver D 90 / BT 20 min

Deco on back-gas required:

1st stop 50 (1 min)
2nd stop 40 (1 min)
3rd stop 30 (1 min)
Final stop 20 (15 mins)

Total dive time 40 mins

According to this, a fairly conservative program, I will admit, 12 mins of deco were likely omitted.

The rule then would have been for 24-48 hours of surface interval before diving again.

Had the required deco time been accomplished, then the min surface interval would have been 2 to 3 hours before the 2nd dive because the N2 loading appears to have been at the limits.

This is what I suspect was problematic with these dives:

1) Deco time insufficient
2) Surface interval time insufficient
3) Bottom mix choice (ideal would be TMX 30/30, 2nd place EAN36, 3rd place EAN32)
4) Deco mix choice (ideal would be either EAN 50 or 100% O2)

Rockjock, I hope you get well soon and feel better. You need better deco software however, and/or you need to set it to a more conservative setting. None of us is simply 21 anymore, and therefore USN tables simply do not work.

Your humble servant, NEREAS

I am curious, considering by PADI tables 20 min is the the NDL for 100fsw and Navy tables allow even a few more minutes than that (from my MDSU buddies) and that being straight air then how does your program come up with 15min of deco on an NDL dive? Which deco program are you running?

I run the 20 min BT through V-planner and at 100fsw it shows 26min runtime total on 25%. to get 15min deco at 20 I had to push it out to 32min BT.

If I use 90fsw then I have to plug in 40min BT (with a total RT of 52 min) to get 15 min at 20-10fsw.

V-planner is very conservative and I am well within that. Suunto is very conservative and my watch never showed DECO. My brain is very conservative and that is what I was diving. We were within the Navy tables and PADI tables (albeit if I use max depth versus average depth we were up to the NDL on the first dive). Using my average depth we had 5 more minutes by the PADI tables even.

We were not diving deco profiles we were diving tables and times/depths. Trust me on this one. I have had more professional divers and military dive docs look at this than I care to count. My case has them scratching their head so much that it was even briefed to DMOs at the Naval Experimental Dive Unit. They know what it was, they just can't figure out why it was. Trust me, if my profiles where in question I am sure they would have stated that as a high probability of the cause. I still have tests to be run, so maybe we will come up iwth an answer.

 

[mrjimboalaska]

And then there is age. It could be that simply with advancing age, something changed, and that may have been related to the unexpected hit.

Jay, there you are, you are getting OLD! When I experienced the loss of sight in my right eye after a dive, a SeaTiger/YO257 combo......and it's a long story, and some of the Ohana know it, it manifested either as a gas bubble in the optic vein, or a precurser to a stroke, SCARY S***! but as it turned out, the Doc's found that I had Drusen on the back of both eyes, the temporary loss of vision is a symtpom of Drusen, and my optic nerves are wound a little tight around my optic veins.......
While I still believe that I got a foreign object in my eye(and this is the belief if the DMO who cleared me to dive) I am glad that I discovered the Drusen, and as for the nerve thing, No real surprise that I'm wound a little tight!!!!
Jay, if you are seeing Baldwin, hopefully you will be cleared by the time I get there! If not, can I use your can light and save me from having to haul mine.......
Jimbo

 

[ScubaAndDreams]

OK Bruddahs (and Sistahs). I will try to sound more courteous and Hawaiian-like!:sappy:

[What an interesting place Hawai'i must be! I actually had a job offer in Honolulu not long ago, which regretably I turned down. Maybe next time ... .]



Rockjock, buddy, I ran your data thru my deco software at home after work, and here is what I got --

EAN25 / MOD 100 / Aver D 90 / BT 20 min

Deco on back-gas required:

1st stop 50 (1 min)
2nd stop 40 (1 min)
3rd stop 30 (1 min)
Final stop 20 (15 mins)

Total dive time 40 mins

According to this, a fairly conservative program, I will admit, 12 mins of deco were likely omitted.

The rule then would have been for 24-48 hours of surface interval before diving again.

Had the required deco time been accomplished, then the min surface interval would have been 2 to 3 hours before the 2nd dive because the N2 loading appears to have been at the limits.

This is what I suspect was problematic with these dives:

1) Deco time insufficient
2) Surface interval time insufficient
3) Bottom mix choice (ideal would be TMX 30/30, 2nd place EAN36, 3rd place EAN32)
4) Deco mix choice (ideal would be either EAN 50 or 100% O2)

Rockjock, I hope you get well soon and feel better. You need better deco software however, and/or you need to set it to a more conservative setting. None of us is simply 21 anymore, and therefore USN tables simply do not work.

Your humble servant, NEREAS

What program are you using? Cause according to it about 7 people on that dive should have gotten bend.

By the way, instead of spouting off what should have been ideal etc etc it would be nice to see WHY you say what you say. I will agree with you that EAN 32 would have been the gas to use on this dive...for Nitrogen Loading reasons...but please explain the choice of 30/30 to me on this clear blue, warm water, recreational dive to an avg depth of 90'

Yes, I suspect I know what your answer is, but we are not drones but THINKING divers...and trying to get Helium in HI is nearly impossible...or extremely cost prohibitive...Having said that, if this would have been a penetration dive we both would have been diving 25/25...as we have done many times before. WHY? Because I absolutely want to mitigate narcosis during a penetration dive even though it's "only" around 100'...Additionally I can get to the sand bottom at 120' with 25/25 with an acceptable PO2 (1.2 at 125)

By the way your choice of EAN36 (you know the one you are suggesting) is pushing the PO2 to 1.45...at 101' but of course you already knew that.

WHY does it sound like I am little bit aggravated at this point? Telling him he needs better Deco software etc etc is slapping me in the face...like he doesn't know what he is doing...because OBVIOUSLY I didn't teach him correctly....and worse yet you are giving incorrect information/bad advise that people might actually start to follow. Next time I dive on a tourist wreck I might see some dude slinging a Nitrox 50 botttle, with 30/30 as his backgas on a 12 minute dive....

Here is V-Planner for your at CONSERVATIVE +2 AND USING MAX depths for both dives! we did more than 4 mins btw...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

V-Planner 3.76 by Ross Hemingway,
VPM code by Erik C. Baker.

Decompression model: VPM - B

DIVE PLAN #1
Surface interval = 1 day 0 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0ft
Conservatism = + 2

Dec to 101ft (2) Nitrox 25 50ft/min descent.
Level 101ft 17:59 (20) Nitrox 25 1.01 ppO2, 94ft ead
Asc to 20ft (22) Nitrox 25 -30ft/min ascent.
Stop at 20ft 0:18 (23) Nitrox 25 0.40 ppO2, 17ft ead
Stop at 10ft 4:00 (27) Nitrox 25 0.33 ppO2, 8ft ead
Surface (27) Nitrox 25 -30ft/min ascent.

Off gassing starts at 63.9ft

OTU's this dive: 21
CNS Total: 7.1%

63.7 cu ft Nitrox 25
63.7 cu ft TOTAL


DIVE PLAN #2
Surface interval = 0 day 1 hr 33 min.
Elevation = 0ft
Conservatism = + 2

Dec to 61ft (1) Nitrox 25 50ft/min descent.
Level 61ft 37:47 (39) Nitrox 25 0.71 ppO2, 56ft ead
Surface (41) Nitrox 25 -30ft/min ascent.

OTU's this dive: 19
CNS Total: 10.7%

79.6 cu ft Nitrox 25
79.6 cu ft TOTAL


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So no...really WHAT PROGRAM ARE YOU USING (I mostly use my brain but that's another thread).

Have a nice ALOHA day,

Sherman

 

[rockjock3]

Jay, there you are, you are getting OLD! When I experienced the loss of sight in my right eye after a dive, a SeaTiger/YO257 combo......and it's a long story, and some of the Ohana know it, it manifested either as a gas bubble in the optic vein, or a precurser to a stroke, SCARY S***! but as it turned out, the Doc's found that I had Drusen on the back of both eyes, the temporary loss of vision is a symtpom of Drusen, and my optic nerves are wound a little tight around my optic veins.......
While I still believe that I got a foreign object in my eye(and this is the belief if the DMO who cleared me to dive) I am glad that I discovered the Drusen, and as for the nerve thing, No real surprise that I'm wound a little tight!!!!
Jay, if you are seeing Baldwin, hopefully you will be cleared by the time I get there! If not, can I use your can light and save me from having to haul mine.......
Jimbo

Yep, I feel the blood as it is slowly turning to dust in my veins. I am not seeing the same DMO, mine is Atkins. If I'm not cleared then of course you can use my light.

 

[mrjimboalaska]

I mostly use my brain but that's another thread.

Have a nice ALOHA day,

Sherman

Now THAT would be an interesing thread........................I feel the Kool-Aid is strong in this one Master.........

 

[nereas]

... When I experienced the loss of sight in my right eye after a dive, a SeaTiger/YO257 combo......and it's a long story, and some of the Ohana know it, it manifested either as a gas bubble in the optic vein, or a precurser to a stroke, SCARY S***!

but as it turned out, the Doc's found that I had Drusen on the back of both eyes, the temporary loss of vision is a symtpom of Drusen, and my optic nerves are wound a little tight around my optic veins.......

While I still believe that I got a foreign object in my eye(and this is the belief if the DMO who cleared me to dive) I am glad that I discovered the Drusen...

Exactly. Some folks have medical conditions that they do not know about, and do not find out about, until they start tech diving. PFO comes to mind, of course.

 

[nereas]

...according to it about 7 people on that dive should have gotten bend.

...

With V-Planner you do indeed already have the best deco software, agreed. However the setting of +2 is not working for you, as you have now discovered. You will need to try +3 or +4 etc.

I apologize if I am the cause of only more frustration for you. Obviously you must focus your frustration somewhere. I am happy to bear it.

Meanwhile, try +3 or higher, when you are well enough to go back into the waters.

 

[Lopaka]

I have traded my fins for a bowling ball for the time being so that I can bowl with 40 crazed women once a week

Do ya get to wear them satin jackets with the logos on the back??

(We need a smiley for a thread hijack...)

 

[kidspot]

[hijack] like this one? [/hijack]

btw - just bracket the "hijack" portion of the thread with [ hijack ] and [ / hijack ] (removing the spaces between the [ ] )