That is straight from the mouth of the Southeast Regional Manager (I hope that title is right) at our update last night (less than 24 hours ago).
As for the college credit....maybe "their curriculum" wasnt the right phrase. Maybe it is better to say "elecive credit." No where did I talk about IDCs or instructor training.
I donut think I was being dubious or deceptive, Thal.
I do not think that you intended to be deceptive. But, you are repeating a claim without checking the reality. What do you really think Mike Kurczweski knows about what “major universities” have “highly encouraged?” Trust me, that’s my world, he doesn’t know squat.
Matt, I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but we all need to be careful when rising to moldy bait.
As far as the ACE is concerned, you need to understand what is actually going on. ACE is a very large organization, one small corner of which attempts to equate programs that are traditionally run outside of an academic setting with what goes on inside an academic setting. Typical programs include things like Microsoft Certification classes taught through the military, project management courses run by the CIA and examinations conducted by the Professional Aviation Maintenance Association. PADI lobbied hard to get it’s courses setup in that mode, something that many groups have done. But keep in mind that ACE only makes a “recommendation.” In point of fact, with respect to PADI, this is exactly what PADI really says:
The American Council of Education (ACE) recommends college credit for certain PADI scuba diver and Emergency First Response (EFR) courses. The ACE credit recommendations for PADI and EFR courses may help you in receiving college credit at an America university or college - even if the courses aren't conducted on a university or college campus.
Note the use of the word "may," more on that later. Let’s look at the PADI Open Water Diver for a moment. Here’s the write up from the ACE website:
Open Water Diver
ACE Transcript Data: PADI-0007
Organization: PADI International, Inc.
Location: Various locations throughout the United States and internationally, including PADI Affiliated Dive Centers and Resorts.
Length: 30 hours (flexible modular schedule).
Dates: January 1978 – Present
Description: 30 HRS (FLEXIBLE MODULAR SCHEDULE) STUDENT WILL ENGAGE IN BEGINNING RECREATIONAL SCUBA DIVING ACTIVITIES IN LOCAL AQUATIC ENVIRONMENTS W/OUT DIRECT/INDIRECT SUPERVISION BY CERTIFIED DIVING INSTRUCTOR.
Objective: To provide students with the necessary entry-level knowledge and skills to scuba dive. Learning Outcome: Upon successful completion of this course, the student will be able to engage in beginning recreational scuba diving activities in local aquatic environments without direct or indirect supervision by a certified diving instructor. Instruction: Major topics covered in the course are adapting to the underwater world, underwater communications, dive planning; diving equipment; boat diving; health for diving; dive tables; marine life identification; the underwater environment; and skill development in a confined water (e.g. ocean, lake, spring, quarry). Methods of instruction include lectures with audio/visual materials, demonstrations, discussions, and evaluation through written unit quizzes and final examination.
Credit Recommendation: In the lower division baccalaureate/associate degree category, 1 semester hour in Physical Education or Recreation (3/87) (9/00) (9/04).
Does today’s PADI course even meet this description? Is it 30 hours long? Is the method of instruction, “lectures with audio/visual materials, demonstrations, discussions, and evaluation through written unit quizzes and final examination?” Help me out, that description seems to me to require 1/3 more course than is run today, was well as actual lectures.
Anyway, over the years I had maybe a dozen students, who where PADI certified divers, request credit for their PADI training. Here are two examples that I posted earlier:
I don't know what this has to do with pricing, most students who took our course took it on "overload," so the credits didn't actually cost them anything. The ACE thing is a complete crock. I had a student demand to get credit for my course because they had a PADI certification. I said no, and she hauled out the ACE and PADI documents. I still said no and she took all that crap to the Academic Senate. I agreed to let her take the written final and pool skill exam, she flunked both. That was the end of the story, but it cost me way more time than it was worth.
I remember getting something in the campus mail from the Dean of Arts and Sciences that a student wanted to get credit for my class because he had a PADI card, included was a letter from PADI that said that the American Council of Education recommends 1 PE credit for his Open Water certification and included a piece of paper that PADI ginned up to look like a college transcript. It was amazing. Anyway, I got this and sent a note back that I did not teach a PE course, but rather an engineering course, that my course was upper division not lower division and that my course was 4 credits not 1. But I offered to permit him to challenge the course: take a swim test, free diving test, scuba test and final written exam. Would it surprise you to hear that he could not swim 400 meters? And he had the nerve to complain that you didn't need to swim to be able to dive. How many of you can remember when a 440yd swim was a course entry requirement, per standards? Then it was moved to, "can complete by the end of the course," then reduced to 220, etc. reductum ad absurdum.
The third example was a real charm, the most extreme. A student, who was a PADI Instructor, wanted credit for PADI Open Water, PADI Advanced, and a couple of specialty courses. His request was based on the fact that all the course included material that we included in our class and they all added up to a bit more than 100 hours. He also wanted credit for PADI Assistant Instructor and PADI Instructor based on the AI and Instructor courses that we ran. If you want to read the details of the PADI courses on the ACE website, here a
link.
He was looking for something like seven credits. I gave him the now standard deal, he did pass the swim test, but did very poorly on the final exam. He was not able to complete the confined water tests. He had the balls to complain to my Administration that that his prior training had not prepared him for either the written or pool exam, that he could not imagine anyone but a SEAL (his words not mine) could pass either, and so (ipso facto) I had to have been rougher on him than I was on "normal" students who took the course(s).
I was fortunate that the President’s wife had taken the 100 hr course a year before (she was a hot ticket, not the sort of thing I’d recommend for most people in their last 60s). She made it quite clear that I had asked this student to do anything that she had not been asked to do.
But he wouldn’t go away, he still wanted to know about the AI and Instructor credits. I told him that that was out of the question since the written exam that he flunked was the NAUI Master Diver Exam (conceptually the NAUI Instructor Exam without the teaching and NAUI sections). Even that did not end it, but he finally sort of just petered out and went away.
I don't know if it was blather or just "piling on of justifications", but I was personally told by Drew Pearson that several "colleges" had worked with them to move this elearning program forward. Mostly, it was state-level 2 and 4 years colleges, using the open water class as a PE credit. They say that their students prefer elearning to classrooms.
Anyway, that is what I heard.
Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment
Sounds like something Drew would say. He is one of the nicest people I know and one of PADI's best salesman, he has even convinced me of things when I knew better. Drew has good contacts at those levels and a great rapport with the "PE world." But you must admit that it is a major jump to go from there to what was stated. I'm confident saying that most all of the "non-PE activity class" people involved with academic diving programs do not happen to agree with him, they feel that just as the business department must rise above the local business trades school, that university level diver training should rise above that offered at the local dive shop.
Keep in mind that PADI undertook this initiative (obtaining ACE recommendations) in order to open up college pools and facilities to individuals who would otherwise never be approved as college instructors or adjunct faculty, it was not done in a vacuum, or as a service to PADI divers.
