The General Angst Over the PADI eLearning Program

[raymond phule]

Many of the comments here and to a large extent in the general dive training is that everyone need to do the same thing as the least skilled and least motivated diver student. Everybody need to listen to the teacher explaining something because some people cant read and understand it from a book or because some people dont care about learning this stuff. It seems to be more important how to avoid that unmotivated people get trough the system without the proper skills and knowledge compared to help learn motivated people how to dive.

e-learning or just reading the book toghether with a short session with an instructor would most likely be a good way to learn the theory for a lot of people.

Wouldn't it be better to actually try to asses the knowledge level of the student in some real way instead of saying that you need to sit and listen here for a couple of hours? A difficult test would be a start.

I also believe the standards and the theory content follows from what I said above. The standards and theory are made to fit what the least skilled and motivated diver can learn during a short course.

 

[mrlipis]

There is a very definitive answer to this old argument. I took the e-learning course and found it very good but that is because I wanted to learn, it was important to me. Whether you are in front of a computer screen or a live person you will get out of it what you put into it. I take my learning seriously as diving is a serious sport. The same person that takes a nonchalant attitude towards learning is the same person who doesn't see the value in taking the AOW or rescue diver or any of the other courses available to help us become safer divers. The more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know.

The e-learning is absolutely the exact same material learned in a class. Maybe one or the other is better for an individual but that is their choice. You can lead a horse to water......

Bruce

 

[raymond phule]

The same person that takes a nonchalant attitude towards learning is the same person who doesn't see the value in taking the AOW or rescue diver or any of the other courses available to help us become safer divers.

Not, necessary true. Interested people might be able to learn in another way than the usual course ladder.

The more I learn the more I realize how much I don't know.

The more I learn the more I realize that I dont want to spend money on least common denomitor courses because you dont learn much in this type of courses.

 

[mrlipis]

The more I learn the more I realize that I dont want to spend money on least common denomitor courses because you dont learn much in this type of courses.

Give me an example of a least common denominator course and it must be a course that you have taken otherwise it's speculation.

Not, necessary true. Interested people might be able to learn in another way than the usual course ladder.

I said nonchalant, if they are interested in learning they don't fall into that category and believe me there are plenty of cocky you can't teach me anything attitudes out there.

Bruce

 

[raymond phule]

Give me an example of a least common denominator course and it must be a course that you have taken otherwise it's speculation.

PADI OW. The course could include something more than kneeing on the bottom and the most basic theory.

I said nonchalant, if they are interested in learning they don't fall into that category

Are you sure? I might be the only one in that case but I doubt it. A couple of dives with an instructor with no (or very easy) theory (as my instructor said about the AOW course) doesn't really fit my view of an important course in a serious activity.

and believe me there are plenty of cocky you can't teach me anything attitudes out there.

Probably true but I also believe that there are quite a lot of people that can learn everything in a standard padi OW course and perform all the skills to an average level after a couple of hours reading and a couple of hours in the water with a friend.

 

[Thalassamania]

I have no problem with the establishment of a rigorous and comprehensive exam and dropping any standards as to how the information is to be gained. The current problem is that the information required for certification is inadequate and the exams test nothing, rather they are designed for liability coverage rather than mastery of a body of information. How the information is taught, or independently learned really should be an irrelevancy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have no problem with the establishment of a rigorous and comprehensive exam and dropping any standards as to how the information is to be gained. The current problem is that the information required for certification is inadequate and the exams test nothing, rather they are designed for liability coverage rather than mastery of a body of information. How the information is taught, or independently learned really should be an irrelevancy.

The problem I have with many (most?) scuba exams is that they tend to test your ability to interpret the question rather than your comprehension of the subject matter. This problem isn't unique to PADI ... every scuba exam I've ever seen seems to have a few questions on it that make you go "huh?" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mrlipis]

Probably true but I also believe that there are quite a lot of people that can learn everything in a standard padi OW course and perform all the skills to an average level after- a couple of hours reading and a couple of hours in the water with a friend.

Not sure I understand your argument. I took the e-learning course and start to finish was probably 10 hours of reading, quick quiz's, chapter finals and final. One thing about the e-learning was if you missed a question you could not move forward. This lead to a tendency to go back and read the material again which in my opinion is a tool in learning... repetitive. There is no way anyone is going to plow through that material and do the tests in a couple of hours. As far as a few hours in the pool, that may be possible but many students have fears and reservations to overcome and that takes a little time.

I personally believe that receiving your C card is the absolute bare minimum and it is the divers responsibility to practice his/her skills. I personally did a lot of trips to the pool prior to my first real dive trip and I am glad I did.

Getting certified does not make you an experienced diver, it teaches you the fundamentals in order to go out and get experience and is not much different than a 16 year old with a new drivers license... think about that one. It takes experience and that is something that can not be taught.

Bruce

 

[agilis]

eCommerce, eLearning, eNema, eCzema, etc. What does the "e" actually mean? Is it a qualitative diminutive, indicating an inferior or cheap version? Typical, atypical, and eTypical as an intermediate?

 

[bfw]

I personally believe that receiving your C card is the absolute bare minimum and it is the divers responsibility to practice his/her skills....
Getting certified does not make you an experienced diver, it teaches you the fundamentals in order to go out and get experience and is not much different than a 16 year old with a new drivers license.

Which is equally problematic. The problem is that the OW C-card is the credential the industry (at least ostensibly) requires to obtain full equipment, and admission to charters and other venues, just as the 16 year old is allowed to drive any passenger car/small truck on any road, and in most states any time and under any conditions. Like the average American drivers' license, the OW C-card no longer implies a level of skill or knowledge commensurate with the access and privileges it confers.

Let's take the analogy further. PADI is like American driver training - OW cards and driver's licenses are practically given out in Cracker Jack boxes, and then we impose draconian speed limits and expect everyone to dive with professional supervision. In Germany, the requirements to drive compare to those in America the way Navy dive training compares to PADI, and they still have places where there are no speed limits. The catch? Germany has a lower fatality rate per vehicle mile. Supervision and artificial limitations are not as effective safety measures as competence and individual responsibility.

What's this to do with E-learning? E-learning was instituted as part of PADI's long standing campaign to trivialize personal responsibility, commitment, effort and effort in dive training, and trivialize the perceived risk in diving itself, in order to lure the dollars of the average immature and stupid consumer. I suspect most people who have concerns about E-learning are really more uncomfortable with the motivation then with the concept itself.