The General Angst Over the PADI eLearning Program

[Scuba Cowboy]

Do you have any evidence for this?

No, not off hand, do you? I'm sure we could find out. I'm basing my assumption on what I've been told and observed. Seems to me NAUI has been shrinking while others are growing. Prove me wrong, but I'd be willing to bet they are #4 at best. But does it really matter? NAUI is no less an agency no matter where they stand in the rankings.

 

[Thalassamania]

No, not off hand

Evidence is usually required of the one making the "unsual" clain, that happens (in this case) to be you. Without something to support it your claim is just more hot air.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No, not off hand, do you? I'm sure we could find out. I'm basing my assumption on what I've been told and observed. Seems to me NAUI has been shrinking while others are growing. Prove me wrong, but I'd be willing to bet they are #4 at best. But does it really matter? NAUI is no less an agency no matter where they stand in the rankings.

Seems to you ... based on what? I don't have any statistical evidence, worldwide, on agency rankings. And I'll bet you don't either.

I can tell you that in the Puget Sound area ... which has a very healthy scuba population within a 50-mile radius of Seattle ... NAUI has been growing. Of the shops I'm familiar with (which I think is all of them), there are 14 PADI shops (8 of which are owned by the same company), 8 NAUI shops, and only one SSI shop. There are no SDI shops here, although a few shops do offer SDI classes on occasion. Of the independent instructors, there is only one PADI instructor that I'm aware of, and at least six independent NAUI instructors. Of the tech instructors I know, 3 are IANTD and/or TDI, 5 are NAUI Tech, and one is GUE.

So I think your perspective is based on nothing more than a snapshot of your local region ... which, like mine, is most likely not representative of the world at large ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[PhilEllis]

While I am reluctant to jump into the "measuring" contest about who is biggest, from an agency standpoint.....I do have some data that may impact the discussion. Unfortunately, I am quoting this from my recall, as I don't have the reports here in front of me.

In the early spring and summer of 2006, Leisure Trends completed and amazingly comprehensive Industry Base Study to allow them to better validate their sampling data about the scuba diving industry. They gathered some interesting information about agency affiliation.

FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE NUMBER OF DIVERS HOLDING CARDS......

PADI was BY FAR the largest, with FOUR times as many divers holding cards than next
NAUI was the second
IDEA was third (this suprised me)


FROM THE STANDPOINT OF GROWTH IN THE PAST 6 YEARS

SDI/TDI had the largest growth in both divers certified and dollar volume of sales
SDI/TID had the largest growth in continuing education certifications
SSI was second in all three of these categories
PADI was third in dollar volume of sales increase and continuing education certifications
IDEA was third in number of divers certified
NAUI was forth in divers certified and continuing education certifications


FROM A STANDPOINT OF WORLDWIDE GROWTH POSITIONING (FUTURE POTENTIAL)

PADI was the only agency that EXPANDED it's worldwide footprint
SDI/TDI remained about constant in worldwide representation
ALL other agencies shrank in worldwide representation

Don't shoot me for this information. I can't vouch for it, I don't know exactly how they gathered the info, I only know what they reported. It is interesting to note that Leisure Trends seems to be the ONLY place were any statistically validated information about the dive industry is available.

Phil Ellis

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

While I am reluctant to jump into the "measuring" contest about who is biggest, from an agency standpoint.....I do have some data that may impact the discussion. Unfortunately, I am quoting this from my recall, as I don't have the reports here in front of me.

In the early spring and summer of 2006, Leisure Trends completed and amazingly comprehensive Industry Base Study to allow them to better validate their sampling data about the scuba diving industry. They gathered some interesting information about agency affiliation.

FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE NUMBER OF DIVERS HOLDING CARDS......

PADI was BY FAR the largest, with FOUR times as many divers holding cards than next
NAUI was the second
IDEA was third (this suprised me)


FROM THE STANDPOINT OF GROWTH IN THE PAST 6 YEARS

SDI/TDI had the largest growth in both divers certified and dollar volume of sales
SDI/TID had the largest growth in continuing education certifications
SSI was second in all three of these categories
PADI was third in dollar volume of sales increase and continuing education certifications
IDEA was third in number of divers certified
NAUI was forth in divers certified and continuing education certifications


FROM A STANDPOINT OF WORLDWIDE GROWTH POSITIONING (FUTURE POTENTIAL)

PADI was the only agency that EXPANDED it's worldwide footprint
SDI/TDI remained about constant in worldwide representation
ALL other agencies shrank in worldwide representation

Don't shoot me for this information. I can't vouch for it, I don't know exactly how they gathered the info, I only know what they reported. It is interesting to note that Leisure Trends seems to be the ONLY place were any statistically validated information about the dive industry is available.

Phil Ellis

I can buy that ... and thanks for the reminder ... we do have a couple independent IDEA instructors here as well. One of them, in fact, is an active ScubaBoard member.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Dive-aholic]

Yes, equipment & trips is part of it. Divers need these to keep diving and to enjoy the sport. As far as pressure sales, well, I know there are shops that do that. I don't happen to run a shop like that. I've been known to talk someone out of a purchase I didn't think was right for them. I might be biased a little, but I carry what I think is the best equipment.

I run a small shop, but we have 4 instructors. We pride ourselves on personal service, working around peoples busy schedules. I think a lot of shops have forgotten that we are here to serve the public, not the public serving us. We do whatever we can to make customers happy. This month, we had several different classes running at the same time, something an independent would have trouble with. We have enough gear and manpower to teach a dozen divers at once, something I couldn't do as an independent. As an independent, you probably work a full time job outside diving. So if someone can only do classes in the middle of the week, an independent is going to find it tough to meet their needs.
Yes, air fills, nitrox fills, equipment servicing are also part of this deal and something that is difficult for the average independent. So, I do believe its a disadvantage being an independent. I didn't say it was bad being an independent, just tougher. I had a working relationship with other shops, that really helped me. Rob, I'm sure you're a fine instructor and you take folks on trips giving them experiences. But even you have to send 'em to a shop eventually to meet all their needs.

Unfortunately, most shops I've encounted have forgotten the part of your statement I bolded. I haven't been to your shop, Dale, but hopefully you do believe this. True, I don't teach a dozen divers at once. And I have found that I've had to delay or turn away divers because my schedule stays pretty busy. I also don't have the gear for that, but I also keep my OW courses to 4 students or less, which I do have the gear for. And yes, I do have to eventually send students to a shop, but I send them to the shops I trust and that have proven themselves to me. Unfortunately, none of those are local. It seems that the only shops that have figured out how real customer service works are the ones that have gone global.

 

[Hawaii Scuba Divers]

Look it is PADI way of making more Money they receive more for this with less out put and so Great deal for them....
Now not a padi facility and you will not get the refferal from elearning so again they make more money you need to be Padi resort or facility MORE MONEY for padi..

 

[oly5050user]

I agree that IF a student wants to fudge his way through this program, he could have someone else do the eLearning program for him or her. However, the committment of time required of another person to do this would be amazing, and I can't imagine who the average guy or girl would get to do this for them. For that matter, a student in a real classroom setting can learn just enough to pass the exam without REALLY learning the material. So, I guess there is NO defense against a person that is simply intent on cheating the system.

They then have another problem. Students that complete the eLearning program, including the on-line final exam, will still be required to take an 18 question "quick exam" when they come to the store for the water-skills work. I have a copy of the quick exam and trust me, without learning the information provided in the eLearning program, you could not pass the quick exam.

Also remember, nothing prevents an instructor (in fact, any good instructor would do this anyway) from having a pool-side discourse with the students to determine who actually knows the academic stuff and who doesn't.

If you are an instructor or store accepting eLearnng referrals, you are also not prohibited from adding classroom sessions to re-inforce that standard academic materials or to introduce additional material that might be unique to your particular diving region.

All in all, I think the program is sound. Most important....it is a learning method that will be extremely natural to the upcoming group of people that will represent the typical student 5 years from now.......the children of the gen-x parents. They already use the internet for everything. Why? Because that is what they prefer. After all, we may call them students, but they are customers.

Phil Ellis

Phil ; I see no difference what ever in a student completing online or traditional methods..
On line only truly replaces the crew pack ..it is on line instead and the student has access to it for a time after the course is done for review,just like a book.Traditionally
They go home watch a video ,read a book--come to class .At class they get a presentation -go over knowledge reviews do a 10 question quiz,go over the quiz..Same as online,only no paper book and trip to the store to buy crewpack.Still have to purchase log book and RDP.Its all about convience.We have been doing this for a while,in a way ,at the facility I currently teach out of.Instead of having student tear page out of book we have a link on our site for them to do their KR's online,submit it and it comes back to them corrected.They print it out,sign the page and we go over it and they hand it in..Still have a classroom presentation.Entire acad module,depending on module,usually takes me 60 minute -75 min..Then to the pool...

 

[Thalassamania]

Phil ; I see no difference what ever in a student completing online or traditional methods..

You hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what I find wrong with the on-line program.

 

[BarryNL]

3) Some feel the at home learning and self paced learning doesn't truly guarentee a student gets everything they are supposed to, even now without the internet option. A good way to look at this is in a college class. A textbook is required as is homework etc. You still though have a lecture presentation. While I feel online learning is just another tool, I have a nagging suspicion that this will evolve into the 'do it quicker to get diving' mentality PADI has advocated since the 'Dive Today' programs. I personally feel a quality classroom compenent is very important in diver education and may of these programs are not designed to augment and much as replace portions of the classroom work.

I think eLearning as a viable option stands or falls on the quality of the material. There is certainly no reason why eLearning can't provide better education than is financially feasible with traditional classroom education. I would suggest that PADI needs to toughen up the exams a bit to ensure that the student has learnt what they are supposed to, but otherwise I can't really see any problems with the new approach.