PADI vs SDI

[ucfdiver]

This is the most uneducated quote i've read on scubaboard to date, and personally I take offence to it.
It's childish and immature.

I've spent 8 years going through the PADI system, and there's been things that I've disagreed with along the way, but I endeavour to provide quality training to all my students...

The fact is that PADI is most likely the biggest certifying agency compared to the rest...lets play a little maths game and say for example that 10% of all certifications will have incidents during their Scuba lifetime. If Agency 1 certifies 20 times more divers than Agency 2 Agency 1 will have 20 times more incidents. Therefore Agency 1 receives more of a bad name.

I've become more of a lurker on this site in recent months because of stupid posts like this one.

/rant over.

While I was careful to avoid his blanket statement, I must say that it confirms what my experience has been diving around PADI divers. Being the largest is irrelevant to being the best. I can make a website that gives online scuba certs in 15 minutes and quickly become the largest, but chances are I'll have the worst divers, similar to if I started offering 1-2day certification classes for vacationers :no

I'd love to see the rates of GUE/NACD divers who have accidents vs those of PADI divers. My personal hypothesis is that GUE/NACD would have a lower accident risk per dive made, but who knows, that's just based off of personal observations and experience.

I still maintain the instructor makes all the difference.

 

[fisherdvm]

I'd love to see the rates of GUE/NACD divers who have accidents vs those of PADI divers. My personal hypothesis is that GUE/NACD would have a lower accident risk per dive made, but who knows, that's just based off of personal observations and experience.

Unfortunately, I still have not seen GUE's OW course offered yet in the USA.

If you look at the GUE's instructor's in this area, most of them started out with a PADI OW certificate, and also are PADI OWSI.

You are right, a blanket statement about certifying organization ignore's the individual's instructors' own accomplishments.

Afterall, you can call yourself an OWSI after only a minimum of 60 dives.

 

[jbd]

My personal recommendation would be NAUI, however since their program is too hard for many people,....

Can you explain what you mean by this???

Just saw your comments in post #21 and will refer you back to Walter's comments in post #24.

 

[jbd]

And tables are are difficult for students to learn.

NAUI tables go around in a simple circle on the face of the table. It really isn't that hard to do and most students don't have trouble with the mechanics of using the tables.

 

[ucfdiver]

Can you explain what you mean by this???

We had 2 high school girls kicked out of our NAUI class from goofing off during lecture. Had another 2 fail the final exam. My mom took the course after me, and she had 2 fail her class as well, 1 for the exam, and 1 person couldn't tread water for long enough. The one that failed the final exam was allowed to come back the next time for free to the lectures, and he earned his cert. I took cavern the same time he did, and he had one of the higher test scores, IMO that proves the NAUI system worked, and worked well.

Don't think I've ever heard of someone failing a scuba course at a dive resort...

NAUI tables go around in a simple circle on the face of the table. It really isn't that hard to do and most students don't have trouble with the mechanics of using the tables.

Agreed.
Here's a link to a NAUI table, I'm struggling to figure out where anyone would get stuck reading this. I passed the NAUI class when I was 11 (yes, my c card was issued on my 12th bday to prove it!), and even at that age I was able to read and use them. My instructor spent more time after class with me on them, but I passed, and got all 15 of the practice scenarios right before he would let me leave.
http://scubatools.narced.com/divetables/NAUI-table1.jpg

Afterall, you can call yourself an OWSI after only a minimum of 60 dives.

Which is pathetic, really.

 

[jbd]

In truth, there are no important differences between the agencies at the OW level, they all teach to exactly the same standards.

Not true at all. Please refer back to Walters response in post #84. Also as Walter noted elsewhere the RSTC is a joke when it comes to standards. ANSI doesn't adopt standards. They just publish what any given industry says its standards are.

 

[ucfdiver]

Not true at all. Please refer back to Walters response in post #84. Also as Walter noted elsewhere the RSTC is a joke when it comes to standards. ANSI doesn't adopt standards. They just publish what any given industry says its standards are.

PADI requires the instructor to give a card to anyone who completes the drills. Bypassing an instructors judgment seems like not such a good thing. NAUI allows the instructor to use their gut feeling. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I really hope I am, but this is what I've heard from a few people.

 

[Don Wray]

PADI requires the instructor to give a card to anyone who completes the drills. Bypassing an instructors judgment seems like not such a good thing. NAUI allows the instructor to use their gut feeling. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I really hope I am, but this is what I've heard from a few people.

That is not correct. A certification is only given if the student demonstrates "Mastery" of the skill. The instructor uses their own judgement as to whether or not a student has mastered the skill. Now, we are urged to continue working with the student until mastery is accomplished, but, we are not required to sign our name to any pic where the standards are not met.

Now, mastery is defined in the Instructor manual as:

mastery is defined as performing
the skill so it meets the stated
performance requirements in a
reasonably comfortable, fluid,
repeatable manner as would be
expected of an Open Water Diver.

 

[tedtim]

Time to jump in cuz I simply cannot accept this as being unique to a particular training agency.

We had 2 high school girls kicked out of our NAUI class from goofing off during lecture.

That is a good thing, but is it a reflection of the agency, or the instructors approach? A sample size of a couple of courses is hardly statistically valid. I have seen the same thing in a course run by other than NAUI.

Had another 2 fail the final exam. My mom took the course after me, and she had 2 fail her class as well, 1 for the exam, and 1 person couldn't tread water for long enough.

How does failing the exam demonstrate that this course was more difficult academically than any other one? It may just show that the students were lazy.

The one that failed the final exam was allowed to come back the next time for free to the lectures, and he earned his cert. I took cavern the same time he did, and he had one of the higher test scores, IMO that proves the NAUI system worked, and worked well.

So, because he failed then re-wrote the exam it proves a system works? I cannot follow the logic here.

Don't think I've ever heard of someone failing a scuba course at a dive resort...

Regardless of agency? I cannot believe that there is only one agency conducting training at resorts. A quick search of the internet shows me that there are many agencies teaching at resorts. Based on your logic, the courses run at the resort are easier regardless of agency. Must be the nice weather.

 

[jbd]

PADI requires the instructor to give a card to anyone who completes the drills. Bypassing an instructors judgment seems like not such a good thing. NAUI allows the instructor to use their gut feeling. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I really hope I am, but this is what I've heard from a few people.

I think you are missing something with the statement,"PADI requires the instructor to give a card to anyone who completes the drills." There should be another word on the end of that statement, and that word would be successfully. It is in that added word where instructor judgement or gut feeling as you call it comes into play. As Don Wray noted above the students are required to demonstrate mastery of the skill sets. The definition of mastery has been debated to death here on scubaboard.