Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I didn't miss anything. You missed that I never said anything about YOU being overweighted. I said the average diver is overweighted, and one of the best ways to head off the thinking that causes that problem is letting them see that someone can dive with no lead, and the world will keep turning. Better yet, that less lead is something to aim for rather than more.



After 19 years of it, I think I know what I want, so get off the high horse. I wear no weight AND no backplate, steel, aluminum or otherwise, in the pool, and that's with a 3mm full length wetsuit and an AL80. (I use one of the shop's jacke BCD's in the pool simply because I don't want my own gear in the chlorine,) When students ask me why I don't use a weight belt, I tell them because I don't need one, and that the less weight you wear, the easier buoyancy control is.

Well you directed your post as me... so whatever.

That's exactly my point... it ain't about you and what you want. It's about what's appropriate for BOW students. They need a weightbelt so they can ditch it in emergencies. That's the standard philosophy for all the major training agencies and they and their instructors have a right and obligation to control the training environment.

I don't normally wear a weightbelt either, but if I can put on 4lbs to help out by not confusing the students and causing them to question the validity of their instruction I think that's appropriate. If I were the instructor teaching a class in HOG gear, I wouldn't want the DM to show up in a jacket BC. It's no different. The DM is only an assistant and should conduct himself as instucted or find entertainment elsewhere.

 

[El Orans]

The DM is only an assistant and should conduct himself as instucted or find entertainment elsewhere.

Interesting description...

 

[Bob Vincent]

Well you directed your post as me... so whatever.

That's exactly my point... it ain't about you and what you want. It's about what's appropriate for BOW students. They need a weightbelt so they can ditch it in emergencies. That's the standard philosophy for all the major training agencies and they and their instructors have a right and obligation to control the training environment.

I don't normally wear a weightbelt either, but if I can put on 4lbs to help out by not confusing the students and causing them to question the validity of their instruction I think that's appropriate. If I were the instructor teaching a class in HOG gear, I wouldn't want the DM to show up in a jacket BC. It's no different. The DM is only an assistant and should conduct himself as instucted or find entertainment elsewhere.

Right on!

 

[seaducer]

That's exactly my point... it ain't about you and what you want. It's about what's appropriate for BOW students. They need a weightbelt so they can ditch it in emergencies. That's the standard philosophy for all the major training agencies and they and their instructors have a right and obligation to control the training environment.

Well, this is just me talking, but if they are properly weighted, and properly instructed in how to figure weights and do a bouyancy check when configurations change, they won't need ditchable weight.

I think many new diver issues (talking from my own experiences especially) stem from having instructors weighing the students down so that it is more convienent to keep track of them in the pool or OW. They are nothing much more than fishing sinkers.

If we OTOH teach them how to dive right from the start, they will be much better off. But that is just my opinion...YMMV

edit- infact the only reason to have ditchable weight, is because you have TOO MUCH weight to begin with...

 

[Bob Vincent]

It's great Peter Guy that you love the way you have your gear. I think that says something about how serious you are about diving. Many times I'll move things around even now to see if I like something better.

But being a DM is an extension of the Instructor and then the shop. All have to be on the same page and instruct one way. You have to sing with the choir. Like it or not. A DM position you wear many hats. You help teach, you watch over and guide students, keeping them safe. But you have to preach out of the same book. New students need that. It's been proven by all the training agencies over the years.

So that might not mean you may want to do beginner classes, which is ok. There's still a lot of advance classes and speciality classes you can help with. And your training and gear will be fine! Just don't say you don't want to DM. Diving is supposed to be "FUN". THATS NOT JUST FOR STUDENTS BUT ALL OF US! If you like helping others and one day you'd like to instruct just don't walk away just move into a more advanced role.

A good DM is worth their weight in gold. I'll tell you now an instructor looks for good DM's it makes his life so much easier having a DM that he doesn't have to watch and knows they can handle anything. They work together as a team. Think about it.

 

[Peter Guy]

Mr. Vincent, what part of my posts has led you to believe I don't comprehend that a DM (any DM) is an assistant to the instructor and must follow the lead of the instructor? Why is it you think you need to keep writing that?

For what it's worth, it was fun to have been asked to demo the BP/W/long hose gear for the rescue class last night. The class was quite interested in the gear (in fact, several, including the instructor, were very interested in the X-shorts!).

For those interested in irony, "my" instructor was also at the pool last night to work with one of the students from the OW class with which I'd been helping. Earlier he had asked if I wanted to help out with the last OW checkout dive and I told him sure -- IF I could dive in my gear (the specified reason had to do with the fact that I was demo-ing the gear in the pool and didn't want to go through the hassle of changing over hoses at midnight -- note, in order to use my BCD I have to change inflatore hoses and second stages). He responded that no, he would prefer not -- OK, his choice. So anyway, after seeing me at the pool demoing the BP/W setup, he then says, BTW, we're meeting at 10:30 tomorrow morning, want to join us (him and student) for the OW checkout? No problem with the gear tomorrow. But, since I had scheduled something else for this morning, I had to pass.

 

[Guba]

Just an observation...I stopped reading this thread after about page 8 or 9, then started again on page 29 (after a couple of weeks).

And the message (and people's viewpoints) never changed.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Just an observation...I stopped reading this thread after about page 8 or 9, then started again on page 29 (after a couple of weeks).

And the message (and people's viewpoints) never changed.

Of course not ... many contributors have obviously not comprehended the intent of the OP, nor bothered to actually read (or comprehend) other people's opinions ... they simply want to post their own.

Seems to be the trend these days ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[seaducer]

Of course not ... many contributors have obviously not comprehended the intent of the OP, nor bothered to actually read (or comprehend) other people's opinions ... they simply want to post their own.

Seems to be the trend these days ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well, far be it for me to let tha facts get in the way of my argument...:mooner:

 

[24940]

A good DM is worth their weight in gold. I'll tell you now an instructor looks for good DM's it makes his life so much easier having a DM that he doesn't have to watch and knows they can handle anything. They work together as a team. Think about it.

While I wholly agree with this statement, what does it have to do with a DM wearing gear that is different from the instructor for checkouts?

I use a rental jacket in the pool, where I demonstrate skills. I'm the only one in the shop diving HOG, but if I had a DC who used BP/W, I would have them in a jacket for pool, because that is what the students are using and we need to demo how that gear is used.

In OW, I dive my kit and my divecons use their jackets. We are a team and it has nothing to do with gear. I have a couple DCs I prefer to use and it is because they are focused on the students needs. They model good trim and buoyancy control, are attentive, don't get in my way and don't need to be managed. They could show up in an oral inflate May West and I'd use them, were it not for the fact that such a rig would violate standards.

In OW, a DC is a safety diver. He's my extra set of eyes and my cat herder. If everything goes to plan, I barely notice he is in the water.

I know enough about Peter, his training and his experience to know he'd be an asset to any OW class, regardless of what kit he dives.