Diver Indicted in 2003 GBR mishap

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Shoredivr

Not in my case, I dive with a computer, a bottom timer and an SPG only.

Again, I wasn't trying to be over sweeping in claiming that everyone has this particular setup with a redundancy in air reading; I mean only that people who do have these computers that give them psi and bar readings ALSO have an SPG, or at least those I have dived with do. I dive with a similar setup to you, so I also have only one source for bar reading.

The important point is that there is typically a redundancy where bar or psi readings are concerned for people with these types of computers, and our defendant is ostensibly a person who had some type of psi reading computer.

Admittedly, I don't know what the setup was for this guy, but assuming he also had a redundancy of some kind, he could have known his psi reading and then "accidentally" said computer when he meant gauge or something else, especially in a murder interrogation over several hours. That being the case, the discrepancy is less of a smoking gun than it appears at first glance, at least in isolation.

I’m not swayed one way or the other based on the crumbs we are getting at this juncture. And this is the rub of the issue. Many people are focused on how Australia is going to prove their case against him without looking at the case that comes before it, the extradition hearing. Though Australia and the US have a treaty, there is still the burden of proof that needs to be met before a citizen gets sent overseas to face a trial in another country.

The poignancy is that this hearing becomes an issue of strategy as much as it is a cog in the process of a murder trial down under. The prosecution will want to give the minimum requirement of evidence they have in their arsenal to get the extradition (thus shielding whatever smoking guns they may have to trip up our defendant), and the defense will of course try to force the prosecution to tip their hand as much as possible before allowing him to be extradited in the first place, thus giving the defense loads of time to fill in these gaps with any number of explanations to limit his liability in circumstantial terms. This is a circumstantial case as it is being presented at this point, which means that the prosecution is in a much tougher position than the defense, as they should be frankly.

I for one would not be willing to put a person away for a very long period of time based on speculation about nitpicks such as these, even if there were more than one, given that these issues are not related to how, why, or even if he killed her (supposedly). As so many divers here with far more experience than me have already said, the landlubber prejudice toward rational behavior becomes something altogether different in an underwater environment. There are reams and reams of cases like this one where inexperienced divers and experienced divers have made utterly stupid calls while under duress. The defense will look for parallels and parade them one after the other to show that anyone can panic when they are stressed, over weighted, poorly trained, etc, etc, etc.

Showing that this guy is capable of such behavior should not be much of a problem given his teenage-like lexicon with English. Conversely, the prosecution is going to be hard-pressed in showing him as the Yank version of Jacque Cousteau, so polished in his skills that he would have… SHOULD HAVE… done thus and thus.

The real case as I see it will be this extradition hearing where this defense strategy will more than likely get a test run. It is probably the first and most important line of defense to force the evidence out in the open. We will more than likely have much more on which to pontificate when that ball gets rolling.

Cheers!
 
FWIW, I was talking to my neighbor the other day and she said about this case, "He was trained to Rescue. That was his job!"

I wonder how many other non-divers have that perception, aided by the media reports. It's too bad. I actually think I would make a good juror for this case. I hope they end up with some divers on the jury.
 
The real case as I see it will be this extradition hearing where this defense strategy will more than likely get a test run. It is probably the first and most important line of defense to force the evidence out in the open. We will more than likely have much more on which to pontificate when that ball gets rolling.

Absolutely. The Coroner's report barely touched on the evidence available, so it will be interesting to see what happens at the extradition proceedings, if and when they occur.
 
FWIW, I was talking to my neighbor the other day and she said about this case, "He was trained to Rescue. That was his job!"

Since completing my stress & rescue class in February, I consider that my obligation now when diving, to look out for others and assist if necessary.
 
Since completing my stress & rescue class in February, I consider that my obligation now when diving, to look out for others and assist if necessary.
If we want to follow the standards by the letter, that has always been your obligation and will never stop being your obligation, wether youre holding a basic cert or youre an instructor?
 
Anyone wonder if someone posting on this thread is Gabe? Or if he is reading it or others like it on different sites ? If anything I suppose he would be a reader and not a poster.

Hey Mike - I too am relaxed, just opinionated...my opinion is he needs to rot in hell....and I hope he reads that.

Oh yeah.....whoever posted that you MUST have a computer to dive in Australia -- that's a damn good rule that should pretty much be world wide. I have dived the caribbean and US so far all the dive shops required them.

Wow, that's off topic but why do you feel that you need a dive shop to tell you how to dive? I don't dive with a dive computer.

Point of clarification Some but not all dive operators in Australia require computers. Not off topic because there was discussion about weather Tina dived with a computer.
Some dive sites computers are required as a safety measure because of inherent risks at that site.

Mike you were implying earlier that this incident was justification to rule Australia and Australian live-aboard operators as potential safe dive options. Now you take issue with the additional requirements they put in place to keep people safe by providing computers. I'm baffled. It seems you have some pretty negative views on dive training and divers skill levels. I won't try to convince you otherwise as it appears to me you have made up your mind based on the information you are willing to accept and are not interested in any facts aren't consistent with your conclusions.


Re diving with computers and pressure guages. No one I know dives with a redundant system as a standard practice they get all their information via their computer. That said, I do dive with a second computer because I never got around to taking it off when I got my UATEC and my BC has an online occy so the extra hose doesn't worry me. I am keeping the computer as a spare and it may as well dive as sit in the cupboard.

Re divers on the jury I think it would be hard to put together a jury without divers considering how popular an activity it is here.

Sorry I tried the multiquote thing and it didn't work. I haven't much time right now so I'll try again another time. Thanks for your directions tho Sas!
 
bowlofpetunias:
Sorry I tried the multiquote thing and it didn't work. I haven't much time right now so I'll try again another time. Thanks for your directions tho Sas!

PM'd you. If anybody else wants more detailed instructions on quoting PM me and I can forward you more help :)
 
FWIW, I was talking to my neighbor the other day and she said about this case, "He was trained to Rescue. That was his job!"

I wonder how many other non-divers have that perception, aided by the media reports. It's too bad. I actually think I would make a good juror for this case. I hope they end up with some divers on the jury.

Your neighbor is right. If he was not capable of making that rescue, he should not have been certified as a rescue diver. It sounds like an easy rescue to me. Anyone out of any adequate entry level class should have been able to have made it to the surface with her.
 
The defendant does not have to testify. Under law he has the right to remain silent at trial, but in Queensland, unlike other states here, the judge and the prosecutor may comment on this and adverse inferences may be made where the evidence establishes a prima facie case [and] the defendant could reasonably have been expected to testify.

As the humble opinion of an American lawyer in France: given this fellow's teenage slang replies under interrogation and the inconsistent versions given to the police, his defense attorneys would have to be idiots to let him take the stand. However, I'm sure the prosecutor is praying Gabe will testify because then he can have a field day tearing this guy apart. Unfortunately, don't think we'll ever see it.

Trish
 
Point of clarification Some but not all dive operators in Australia require computers. Not off topic because there was discussion about weather Tina dived with a computer.
Some dive sites computers are required as a safety measure because of inherent risks at that site.


Page 3 Tape 2
but I didn’t you know, we didn’t watch each other do it, the only thing I can remember was you know after she turned it on um you know I had I think I asked her how much air she had or something like that um I know you know she had her you know computer in her hand

She had her own computer. I get the impression it was AI because this conversation is about how much air they had & she looked at her computer to get this info instead of looking to an SPG. Her having an AI computer gives them a point of comparison for the two computer profiles. This could be damning evidence. Also, if she were AI would they be able to tell if her air had been turned off at some point???
 
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