Defective BCD in Confined Dive

[ScubaSteve]

Well, I have a different reaction to the contract thing. Yes, I think the salesman you originally talked to should have brought that up and made it clear. BUT -- You arrived and you signed the piece of paper, and I think after that, you are really obligated to pay the price. If you didn't read it, that was a mistake, but not the shop's. I realize that, having arranged the class a couple of months ahead of time, you might be angry and reluctant to back out and have to wait again somewhere else, but the bottom line is that you signed the contract BEFORE you got the instruction, so I think you pay and then go elsewhere if you want to.

I agree with you TSandM. However, this is based on the assumption that this $x or $x was written into the contract. I got the impression that this was something that was presented to them after the fact. If they had it when they signed and paid, then you are 200% right. The OP is obligated. If this was not part of a document (or verbal instruction) that the OP had before signing, then the LDS is trying to change the conditions of a contract which they cannot do. I spend other people's money for a living and my favourite saying is "A bankrupt supplier is no good to me" so the logic that they need to make money is sound and true. The LDS can and should price things this way if they want.

To the OP, make sure you know when this form was introduced and what your rights or obligations are. No matter what, the relationship has gone sour so once you are done find an LDS that you respect and can do business with.

 

[TSandM]

The other BIG lingering issue now is when the classes finally started we were handed an orientation sheet that outlined what the class was about, who the instructors were, etc. The document also stated that the price for the class was $XXX.XX and in parentheses if equipment bought from said LDS, otherwise the price was $XXX.XX which was roughly twice the first amount.

This sounds to me like part of the paperwork that had to be done the first day of classes, with the waivers and all. As such, it would have been presented before any instruction was undertaken. I do agree that it should have been made clear in advance, but the OP says he had this at the beginning of class, and therefore, in my view, he is bound by it.

 

[sixgears]

That all sounds rather swarmy, to the point of being false advertising and fraud. In this document you were handed, did it specify what equipment you had to buy? If I would have had to have bought my BC, Reg and Comp from the shop I did my OW at I would have saved serious money by paying twice as much as I did for the class. If it is not specific buy a snorkle and tell the guy pound sand.

No it only says (If you buy equipment from <insert LDS name here>). More about this below in my new adventure column.

After reading this, I am afraid for you. This place actually sounds worse than my LDS which I though had taken the cake. Sorry but I ate the cake already . It went good with the I ate reading your thread here.

You are being scammed with this form that says $x under these conditions and $x under those conditions. If you paid $x and they are now trying to change it out of spite they can float a rope. If you knew this before hand and chose to ignore it, then they are in the right (even if they are wrong). My advice is as long as they do not try to screw you over the price, finish your training there, get your referral and RUN FORREST!!! Get out and do not look back. This is the type of LDS that makes everything painful. Diving is supposed to be fun and not painful.

As my wife had said before if we knew all along I don't think it would have been an issue. Instead of dilly-dallying they just had to be upfront and give me the painful truth otherwise ...

Well, I have a different reaction to the contract thing. Yes, I think the salesman you originally talked to should have brought that up and made it clear. BUT -- You arrived and you signed the piece of paper, and I think after that, you are really obligated to pay the price. If you didn't read it, that was a mistake, but not the shop's. I realize that, having arranged the class a couple of months ahead of time, you might be angry and reluctant to back out and have to wait again somewhere else, but the bottom line is that you signed the contract BEFORE you got the instruction, so I think you pay and then go elsewhere if you want to.

It is not uncommon for shops to price things that way -- It's how they protect themselves from losing too much money on a student who doesn't end up buying equipment from them. The shop where I got trained originally is pretty up front about it; the price is contingent on you buying your "personal gear" from that shop.

First of all there was no contract. If you mean pay the money and get a receipt-type of contract then yes there was one. But herein lies the dilemma where they only charged us x-amount of $$$ and hoping that we get the hint that all personal scuba gear were to be bought from them.

Why would anyone buy gear from a shop that can't maintain their own rental gear? That is the question you need to ask the owner.

Which agency is this shop affiliated with? As soon as you are done and get your referral or if they give you the slightest bit of grief and try to raise the price at this point, contact the agency and let them know everything that has transpired. This isn't right and is no way to do business. It is also no way to engender more divers to the sport.

The LDS owner's reaction was "well, we have a lot of classes going on and people don't really take care of this type of equipment very well ...

 

[sixgears]

I agree with you TSandM. However, this is based on the assumption that this $x or $x was written into the contract. I got the impression that this was something that was presented to them after the fact. If they had it when they signed and paid, then you are 200% right. The OP is obligated. If this was not part of a document (or verbal instruction) that the OP had before signing, then the LDS is trying to change the conditions of a contract which they cannot do. I spend other people's money for a living and my favourite saying is "A bankrupt supplier is no good to me" so the logic that they need to make money is sound and true. The LDS can and should price things this way if they want.

To the OP, make sure you know when this form was introduced and what your rights or obligations are. No matter what, the relationship has gone sour so once you are done find an LDS that you respect and can do business with.

This form was given to us during the second class or confined dive #2. My wife and I looked at each other as if to say where did this come from???

 

[sixgears]

This sounds to me like part of the paperwork that had to be done the first day of classes, with the waivers and all. As such, it would have been presented before any instruction was undertaken. I do agree that it should have been made clear in advance, but the OP says he had this at the beginning of class, and therefore, in my view, he is bound by it.

People should be upfront with the costs. Period! This is a business and it's understandable that businesses need to make money or at least break even. If they had mentioned their pricing structure and showed us this document when we first signed up or maybe even a month before class started I don't think there would be a problem. But if you spring this on people who expect to get in the water during the first or second class then all bets are off. As I mentioned before they did leave me a message stating that my wife still needed her personal equipment but never mentioned anything about having to buy it at this LDS or else there would be additional expenses incurred. How hard is that?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Well sixgears, you have definitely found yourself a winner. If you were a fisherman I would say throw it back in the water. If you can (and they allow you too), finish your classes/pool sessions, tell the LDS owner whatever he needs to hear without committing anything to him, get your referral and never look back. As TSandM has said, the dive shop has to make money and some do it honestly and in and up front manner which works to win back business. Others do it in an underhanded and sideways way which gets them some money but rarely wins them any recurring business.

By the way, if you had already paid for your sessions in full prior to the second class, then you are OK. I had to pay for mine up front....maybe I look shifty and untrustworthy.....so I expect you did. That said, you can tell the LDS that he has no right to increase his price and that you will not pay anything more. If he does anything stupid like refuse you your referral, three letters - BBB (Better Business Bureau) to start. I think you just need to get away from them....it creates a poisonous environment.

 

[TSandM]

No matter what the fault is or isn't in this case, it's certainly clear that you guys and this shop are a bad fit. It sounds as though, at best, the shop was somewhat slipshod in their business practices, and may be slipshod in their gear maintenance (and I'd worry a little about the training itself at this point, too!) Hopefully, you have other choices in your immediate vicinity for your further training or equipment needs.

 

[sixgears]

I don't think the business is shoddy in itself but rather what they are bound to by certain high-end manufacturers of equipment. I wonder how they would have reacted if I was donning equipment that they were authorized for. My wife said they will probably act the same way because the issue is not the equipment but how you acquired it. I think she may be right (as usual).

 

[Dragon Eye]

I've been reading this tread, and I've gotta say you paid x dollars ahead of time for the class. X dollars is what the class costs, nothing more. You need to see what you can finish or just run!

As a first time diver my LDS not only provides equipment (minus the usual mask, fins and snorkel) but its replaced every year. If there is a problem in the pool, they change out the gear right away, and check out anything in question. I feel real confident in the instructors as well, answering every possible question my dive buddy could come up with (believe me they were mostly technical and regarding different equipment). You really need to feel good about the people your working with- it could be a life or death situation, and lets face it- if the shop or instructors don't care enough to take care of their equipment and/or students it's not worth the risk.

So, Find another shop, and talk to a bunch of people in your area to get a good feel.

 

[SteveAD]

Sounds like a less than ideal situation. I too offer a discounted course fee to my students who buy mask, fins, snorkle, and boots, but I Always quote my full, undiscounted price and then tell them they can get xxx discount if they buy a,b,c.