LDS -vs- Online purchases

[ScubaSteve]

...... and know that your LDS will charge you more to service things you buy online - so in the end... you don't save anything - and in many cases end up spending more... when you find out parts are no longer available etc... and you have to buy a whole new item.....

This is a broad and very specific to you and possibly you only. Perhaps your shop (you being the proprietor) will knowingly overcharge somebody out of spite but the shops that I give my business to do not. This statement alone tells me you are not the shop that I want to have my hard earned money.

Part of my equipment comes from various LDS's and the rest comes from online. I purchased BIG and small from both.....no matter what I still get my deal when I get each piece serviced. This stands even if I split the service up between two shops simply because it was way more convenient for me.

I really hope you change this policy because you will, otherwise become a "failed business" statistic only.

 

[Jupiter31]

Its been debated on this board - in threads like this and others which have "morphed" into this debate 100's of times.

If you had done a search, you would have known this.

What possibly else can be said - there are strong arguments for both sides, and you should consider both, as there are no right answers.

Just hope you did not think you were introducing a "new" topic.

Since you are fairly new around here, I'll tell you my top beaten to death topics - you may not need to start a thread on these:

Steel vs Aluminum
Tipping your dive master
I have never dove/not certified and want to become a DM (or some other dive professional, fill in the blank)
NITROX - safe or not
What kick to use while scubadiving ie frog vs flutter
Weather conditions in S FL, when it was just asked the day before - especially for some time period in the future
Recommendations for an op or hotel in Key Largo - do a search!

This is somewhat tongue in cheek; you are, of course, welcome to introduce whatever topic you wish; just that this is likely THE most debated topic:

I think both have a place
I have not seen a single arguement to change my mind
Its your money, shop where you wish

 

[mike_s]

.

Not so long ago I ordered a couple of regs from LP and when I got them and checked them... the manufacture dates were from 2002... .

so if you're a LDS, why'd you have to order the regs from LP?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Let's not forget about the age old debate about just how quickly you will die if you use Home Dept less expensive stainless clips versus the more expensive stainless clips from the LDS.

 

[psychocabbage]

Here are two questions I pose occassionally to customers...

1. When was the last time you went into Walmart, Macy's, Sports Authority or any other retailer for that matter and asked them to reduce a price on the shirt you were buying? Do you try to negotiate a price in any other retail store other than a dive shop? (Auto dealers are not retail stores)

2. Do you get personal service online?

1. Bicycle shops will alter the price. They are retail stores much like SCUBA shops.
Bestbuy and before it died Circuit City also did price matching. Those two are also retail. Its common place for people to expect to get the best possible price and instant gratification. Its the ignorant or indifferant that choose to not shop the best price.

2. I normally do. I call up a rep. build a relationship and we spend time talking over what I am wanting and what they suggest. For bikes, I can tell if they know what they are talking about. For other items, I have to refer to my research to see if what they say sounds plausible. But, on the phone, I can be online and talk to them at the same time.

I have 0 issues with any LDS, I just have not found an LDS that will leave their attitude in check when they find out you are an online buyer.
The last BC I bought was at a 50% off sale at a going out of the biz store.. We bought it just cause. We didnt need it. But at less than $200 for a unit that would normally retail for $400+, I couldnt pass it up. I know I can ebay it and reclaim the $ if I wished. Instead, its now for those that come diving with us and happen to fit into it.

 

[MarKon]

Frankly, perhaps retail shops should charge the same price as the online guys... then charge 35 bucks an hour to let customers IN the store to test and compare and ask questions about the product. Now that'd be fair. $35 bucks an hour is actually pretty cheap for consultation rates in most industries.

As to AIR, start looking at prices of both compressors and maintenance and do the math. I saw someone do that in one of these threads a couple years back and it basically would take a couple thousand fills to break even with a cheap compressor in your garage. For a fill station having to pay rent, they'd have to pump a LOT of tanks daily to make a profit. That isn't going to happen in most places.

Don't think it is reasonable to pay 35 to try on equipment. Would you pay $35 to test drive a car? Slightly ridiculous. As for "consultation", my experience is that the LDS will sell you whatever they most want to sell, and if they don't sell it, it probably isn't very good. Interesting consultation. Not worth $35. I have not examined compressors. so maybe buying my own is not an option. The quarry where I sometimes dive has a compressor, and air fills are slightly more expensive (not the $350 difference you may find on some BCD's). But I just don't believe "lack of airfills" is going to destroy SCUBA. The argument really feels like "I couldn't do my homework because I didn't have a pencil".

 

[ScubaSteve]

But I just don't believe "lack of airfills" is going to destroy SCUBA. The argument really feels like "I couldn't do my homework because I didn't have a pencil".

Anybody who states that if LDS's go out of business, we will never be able to get air fills is nothing more than a drama queen and knows nothing of business. There may be a blip where fewer people have compressors.....each fill may start to cost more.......then people will see an opportunity and used compressors will be purchased as will new compressors......air will become easier to get and prices will slowly reduce as supply comes more in line with demand.....it may not be over night and it may be tough for a bit but to think no air will be available is just stupid.

 

[friscuba]

Anybody who states that if LDS's go out of business, we will never be able to get air fills is nothing more than a drama queen and knows nothing of business. There may be a blip where fewer people have compressors.....each fill may start to cost more.......then people will see an opportunity and used compressors will be purchased as will new compressors......air will become easier to get and prices will slowly reduce as supply comes more in line with demand.....it may not be over night and it may be tough for a bit but to think no air will be available is just stupid.

The used compressors you are talking about will probably come from those who've tried and failed to make money off just a compressor. It'll sell to the next wide-eyed optimist, who will likely figure out the same thing as the previous owner in a year or so.

There may be a few areas that could support a fill station only. I came from Oregon, every dive shop there I visited had a compressor, but mainly because it was part of being a dive op, not a money maker. I can't think of any single "dive spot" in that state that had enough divers every day or every weekend to support a compressor only business. I had an instructor friend that had his own compressor... he was shaking his head a year or two later, I believe most private individuals will realize how much of a hassle and how expensive it is to fill tanks for your buddies in relatively short order. Perhaps Portland could support a fill station, but the rest of the state? The Seattle area probably could. There are a few "resorts" on the Puget sound that'll have a compressor to support their customers, but that's about it.

My guess is that if dive shops go the way of the DoDo, people will figure out soon enough that a commercial fill station only is not a viable business in much of the country.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Anybody who states that if LDS's go out of business, we will never be able to get air fills is nothing more than a drama queen and knows nothing of business. There may be a blip where fewer people have compressors.....each fill may start to cost more.......then people will see an opportunity and used compressors will be purchased as will new compressors......air will become easier to get and prices will slowly reduce as supply comes more in line with demand.....it may not be over night and it may be tough for a bit but to think no air will be available is just stupid.

Response to friscuba

Well, then you cannot have air from my compressor . The reality of life is as follows:

If there is demand, supply will follow....end of story

I stand by the fact that those that say the sport will die an unfriendly death because the LDS cannot provide fills are blowing smoke and hot air. Nothing more. If you read my post (conveniently quoted and bolded above), I believe all the answers are there.

 

[EDGE245277]

I agree other than high population areas with a good number of divers a pure fill station business would have very high failure rate. However you would likely see dive clubs form with 50-100 or more divers splitting the cost of that used compressor via annual dues with unlimited fills. Down here we have many spear fishing clubs that not only have a compressors but lodges for just a few hundred dollars in dues each year. I am sure a new club would require a one time large assessment to purchase a compressor, but you would also size the compressor to the number of members so the cost should be in line. If the starting members buy a larger compressor in hopes of growth in membership future new members would have to pay a buy in that rebates back to the remaining original members or goes to a expansion/maintenance fund.