Divemaster\Instructor Liability

[Coldwater_Canuck]

If you only wish to undertake the DM course as a vehicle for improving your scuba skills, experience and confidence, then you need not worry about that.

What about the "internship" portion though? Aren't you, using our lawyer friends' terminology, assuming explicit responsibility for the classes you help?

* asking and viewing thread out of curiosity, absolutely no plan to do Divemaster for at least a few years *

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

What is less helpful is Us vs Them trolling.

Can you clarify something, what was this in refrence to?

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Phil, you are confusing Deep certification with a Deep Adventure Dive.

For the AOW course, you have to complete 5 Adventure Dives, one of which is the mandatory Deep Adventure Dive (max 30m).

The Deep 'certification' is a speciality course, comprised of 4 dives (max 40m). You have to be certified as an Adventure Diver or AOW to enrol on a deep speciality course.

Just to add the difference being the adventure dive qualifies you to 100 feet, the deep certification to 130, so MSD doesn't show the same thing as having a deep cert.

When was Padi ever stated by the op? Specifically PADI Master Diver. PADI Master Diver, and NAUI Master Diver are much different, PADI you pay for a card, NAUI theres acctually training involved.

If this was meant in response to myself and DevonDiver, the OP didn't, but the poster we were replying to said in his first post "MSD is PADI's highest non-professional rating. DM is their lowest professional rating.", so he was.

 

[matt_w]

What about the "internship" portion though? Aren't you, using our lawyer friends' terminology, assuming explicit responsibility for the classes you help?

* asking and viewing thread out of curiosity, absolutely no plan to do Divemaster for at least a few years *

All activities as a DM intern should be under the direct supervision of an Instructor. (An active PADI insturctor would have their own liability insurance). You would most likely have to do something intentionally harmful to be found liable in that circumstance. However, that does not mean you might not be forced to defend yourself.

As a Divemaster candidate/intern you should make an effort to not portray yourself as a certified Divemaster or a Dive professional of any kind.

One part of the original posters question that has not been addressed: A PADI member, even if not working at the time is supposed to report any incidents they witness, even if they are not involved. I imagine if you were on vacation and witness some minor incident, you might get away with not reporting it. Reporting an incident is usually in your best interest. If the incident is serious and your failure to file a report was discovered, that is at least one violation of standards that could come back to haunt you in future legal proceedings.

One other area that seems murky to me is when you are diving in a non-professional capacity with people you have supervised in the past. From a liability stand point this seems to be about the worst position you can be in. There are no standard waivers to cover this particularly situation.

I do not use my DM card when doing personal trips and do not tell people on trips where I am not working that I am a DM. I would file an incident report for anything I witnessed anyway (Fortunately, this has never happened). It is difficult not to try and help when you see someone struggling on a dive boat, unfortunately the world we live in today does make me hesitate. I have found it is generally better to point out the struggling diver to one of the DMs that is actively working. In no case would I allow concerns about liability prevent me from intervening if I thought someone was going to be injured or killed. We all have to live with ourselves.

 

[elan]

A bit off the general point, but I don't think that's correct. I've never seen deep cert as a requirement for either Master Scuba Diver or Divemaster. Did I miss something?

All MSD really shows for training is that you have Advanced and Rescue (so you are qualified to 100 feet and have rescue training). The specialties can be anything really. I don't believe DiveMaster requires any specialties, only Advanced/Rescue (but I could be wrong on this, haven't really looked into it).

Deep dive is a prerequisite for AOW and AOW is prerequisite for MSD

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

If this was meant in response to myself and DevonDiver, the OP didn't, but the poster we were replying to said in his first post "MSD is PADI's highest non-professional rating. DM is their lowest professional rating.", so he was.

No it was more in response to philmayer's 1st post, and then consecutive posts after about padi as a result of it.

 

[RJP]

Deep dive is a prerequisite for AOW and AOW is prerequisite for MSD

No, deep certification is not a requirement for MSD.

Deep certification is a requirement for Advanced Open Water.

Advanced Open Water is a requirement for MSD.

Thus, having an MSD cert shows that you also have deep cert.

Nope - at least not in PADI, where you need to do the deep "Adventure Dive" for AOW but of course that's not the same as a Deep Diver certification.

 

[elan]

Hm, what is the difference between the two ? Adventure dive and Deep Specialty ? Just curious as I have never done adventure one

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

The adventure dive is one dive, and the specialty is a few dives I believe

 

[RJP]

Hm, what is the difference between the two ? Adventure dive and Deep Specialty ? Just curious as I have never done adventure one

The PADI "Advanced Open Water" is comprised of five separate "adventure" specialty dives. Deep, Navigation, and your choice of three other specialties. These dives will each count as Dive #1 of the corresponding specialty, but completing one dive of the specialty is not the same as completing the specialty and receiving the certification. Deep Diver, for examples requires a total of four dives for certification.