Divemaster\Instructor Liability
- Thread starter DannyCap
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Me neither. If I am employed by the shop/boat and working that boat, then I carry legal responsibility. If I am a paying customer/diver on a boat, then I am not responsible for anything unless I offer my services.
I personally don't show anything over my rescue card or whatever tech card I need for the dive. I only do this because the last time I showed even my DM card, the DM on the boat not only asked me to help a man and his kid with their gear ( that they "forgot" how to assemble), but later in the day, when the same man was seasick, the DM asked me to take the 13 year old son with me on my dive. Nope, I refused. Had I taken that task, then I would have been liable for anything that happened to that kid.
You are only responsible if you assume the duty of care. Otherwise, you are good to go.
In the long run, yes you are correct that you have no legal responsibility.
In the short run, anyone can sue anyone else for any thing at any time.
While you might eventually be removed from the case because you didn't have a duty of care toward the person, you will more than likely need a lawyer to establish the fact that you didn't have a duty of care.
If it is just that cut and dry to get removed from the case, you could still be looking at $2,000 to $3,000 in lawyer fees just to get removed.
I recommend to anyone that will be reaching the divemaster level or higher, at the very least carry the non-teaching liability insurance.
Well, the one benefit of NOT showing a DM or Instructor card is that if no-one knows you are a dive professional, no one will look to you or expect you to exhibit the standard of care required from someone who is a dive professional. eg no one will say "Hey, since you're a DM can you buddy up with Skippy here..."
You may still end up buddied up with Skippy, but at least you wont be "assigned" to him as a DM.
Zendiver brings an additional point to the table. My earlier post only addressed the fact that a decent lawyer would really find out who you were, not whether the boats divemaster would impose upon you. Here is some additional food for thought.
Not once in my experience that have I been onboard a dive boat have any of my certification cards been checked. They have always been checked at either the dive facility or by the person greeting our party when I fill out the paperwork.
For the people on the dive boat to know your level of certification, either you or someone from the dive facility will have to tell them that your certification level is professional level.
If you do happen to be identified as a professional level diver or even a more experienced diver and you refuse assistance, are you actually less or more liable than you would be if you agreed to help and something happened given that you had no specific relationship to begin with? Understandably no one wants to blow their dive helping someone who shouldn't be there in the first place.
In the first case, you know something might happen, but want to be distanced. In the second case, since something might happen, you will be involved in it, if it does happen.
Since I usually dive with my wife, I have only had this buddy issue come up once or twice. In those situations, I proactively asked if I could hang with the divemaster. That avoided the inexperienced buddy issue.
I think that the general concept of the good and bad samaratin laws may somehow apply here.
Not once in my experience that have I been onboard a dive boat have any of my certification cards been checked. They have always been checked at either the dive facility or by the person greeting our party when I fill out the paperwork.
For the people on the dive boat to know your level of certification, either you or someone from the dive facility will have to tell them that your certification level is professional level.
If you do happen to be identified as a professional level diver or even a more experienced diver and you refuse assistance, are you actually less or more liable than you would be if you agreed to help and something happened given that you had no specific relationship to begin with? Understandably no one wants to blow their dive helping someone who shouldn't be there in the first place.
In the first case, you know something might happen, but want to be distanced. In the second case, since something might happen, you will be involved in it, if it does happen.
Since I usually dive with my wife, I have only had this buddy issue come up once or twice. In those situations, I proactively asked if I could hang with the divemaster. That avoided the inexperienced buddy issue.
I think that the general concept of the good and bad samaratin laws may somehow apply here.
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The flip side is that if you are assigned to Skippy, you're obligated to do your best to keep him from winning a Darwin Award, regardless of whether anybody knows your certification level.
If Skippy moves on to the Great Beyond because you didn't do something you should have, or did do something you shouldn't have , you can be certain that his heir's attorney will know your cert level within days or even hours, and that you'll be on the hook for not providing a level of care appropriate to your level of training.
I actually like diving with new divers, however it's within my "comfort zone". This means that at least for the first dive with an unknown buddy, Skippy and me are in for a really shallow, relaxing dive and some skills, unless I'm absolutely certain he's up for something more.
Terry
DevonDiver
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So glad I don't live in the USA. That statement doesn't really apply to the rest of the globe
I am always more than happy to show my instructor certs when diving with different operations...... and would be equally as happy to laugh in someone's face if they asked me to do anything other than be pampered as a fee paying customer.
It's never happened though - I have never been asked to look after other divers when I have been on holiday.
nothing personal you Skippys....
Well, if that's the case then you're actually partly RESPONSIBLE for Skippy's misfortune!
:depressed:
Devon,
I believe in most cases you would not have any liability in the US either, but unfortunately even if you are found not responsible you are still bankrupt at the end of the day. Many have liability insurance through the ship they are affiliated with and it does not provide coverage for other activities, so making sure no one has an expectation that you are there in a professional manner may (or may not
, I am no Lawyer) help short circuit the litigation. I believe if you acted correctly in response to a situation and reported the information to PADI (Not sure of other agency standards). There may be some legal assistance , or at least guidance from that direction to.
Having said all that, a simple change like many other countries have requiring you to pay pay the legal fees if you file suit against someone and lose, would certainly go a long way to preventing peoples current "shotgun" approach to litigation.
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