The "Official" SB Scuba Course?

[DCBC]

I guess I wasn't very clear. My apologies, and I will try again.

George is an instructor. He uses his favorite methodologies to teach a course. It takes him 16 hours of instructional time. He decides that he wants to teach more, using the same methodologies. He adds 4 hours to the course, and is thus able to add 4 more hours worth of instructional content. (That is consistent with your statement.)

Sally is an instructor. She employs different methodologies. Because her methodologies are more efficient than George's, she has been teaching George's 20 hour class all along, completing it in 14 hours.

Bob is an Instructor. He employs similar instructional methods as Sally. He targets those people who do not desire to learn the minimum requirements, but attain a higher competency. He teaches a longer program which is 60 hours in length.

What I'm disagreeing with here is that longer training equates to less efficient instruction. Without knowing the facts it's arrogant to make such a presumption.

 

[DCBC]

I disagree that longer means better.

You Sir evade the question. Could you, if given more time, increase the diving education of a student? If the answer is yes, would your program automatically become less efficient because of this? Would your standards of education, the methods you use be no longer valid because of your additional effort?

 

[DCBC]

When you talk about antiquated teaching methods, are you referring to those in use before the educational breakthroughs that brought us to the instructional zenith in the 60's?

Who is anyone to say that the training methods used in the 60's are antiquated? This term to me implies "too old to be useful." I would not suggest that any diver (or student of any discipline) received poor instruction regardless of the time in-which it was received.

What I was saying John, is that the basis for training then was vested in certain principles that are apparently not required today. In-particular: fitness, swimming ability, modular progression of the use of equipment & greater exposure to the equipment before open-water, drills that built confidence and developed teamwork and a greater understanding of underwater physiology, physics and the diving environment.

I believe in these principles because I've seen them generate solid divers who do not require the "supervision of a DM or Instructor." Divers who are independent and are able to effectively look after themselves and their buddy. Some divers today can do little more than bob around with a full BC and look after themselves. Buddy contact is pathetic and little preparation is done in regards to dive planning and air consumption. I could go on...

I am not the only one who has seen the level of apparent incompetence of divers today. How many comments on this site have been made about this. I'm not expecting that a new diver doesn't need to learn through experience. IMO this is a critical aspect of any diver's training. They should however not be a hazard to their buddy or themselves when they enter the water as a certified diver.

I'm not saying that this is the situation in all cases. Most instructors that I ask do not teach to minimum standards (perhaps I'll post this question and we'll see what the membership thinks). Why is it that they feel that this extra training is required? Especially when their certification body doesn't?

 

[DCBC]

So I pull up to Mrs. Heard's Pool and there were all these Scuba Divers: horse collars, steel 72s w/J Valves, Mask, snorkel, rubber wet suit, duck feet and block weights doing push ups in the hot Florida son! Apparently they screwed up some skill and this was the best teaching practices for the time. It sure wasted a bunch of time!

So this idiot convinced you that this is how things were done in the 60's. I hope you don't do research for a living.

 

[The Chairman]

You Sir evade the question. Could you, if given more time, increase the diving education of a student? If the answer is yes, would your program automatically become less efficient because of this?

Once we stop teaching BASIC Scuba and start with more advanced topics, then yes: any program becomes less efficacious. Why? Just like those unnecessary push-ups, adding for the sake of ego just puts another barrier in the way of otherwise eager students. Scuba is not viewed as a vocation or even an avocation by most. Lengthening the course and making it needlessly complex only presents Scuba as some sort of boot camp for the elite who have enough time and money to invest in it.

Would your standards of education, the methods you use be no longer valid because of your additional effort?

Could you translate this please? You would get better answers if you asked better questions! There is no problem with "additional effort" by the instructor. That should be seen as innovation in their presentation of the core skill set needed for diving. It would also probably shorten the time needed (if truly innovative). That's as close as I can come with this gobbledygook question.

 

[DCBC]

Could you translate this please? You would get better answers if you asked better questions! ... That's as close as I can come with this gobbledygook question.

I think you gave as clear of an answer that I could expect from you. Thank you.

 

[The Chairman]

So this idiot convinced you that this is how things were done in the 60's. I hope you don't do research for a living.

I had almost always thought that this might be an anomaly, until I attended the California Scuba Show some years back. Within their historical pictures, there were several different classes doing push-ups just as I had seen. Perhaps you are the one needing to work on their research.

Many instructors during the 60s/70s were ex-military and a surprising number of those were ex UDT divers. The instructor I had seen was not one, but when I asked him about it last year, he smiled and admitted that he had been taught by one, using the most modern methods of the times. He said that he gave it up in the mid seventies... why? It scared too many students off. :homealone: While it seems to evoke discipline, these old methods are often contraindicated by today's teaching standards. It seems that simply making things tougher does not make a better class either.

I might note, that you have failed miserably in showing that a longer class using sub par teaching methodologies (antiquated), can result in a better class. Length of class is not the answer. What we should be concentrating on are the universal skills needed to be a safe and competent Scuba Diver.

 

[The Chairman]

Who is anyone to say that the training methods used in the 60's are antiquated? This term to me implies "too old to be useful."

I am someone to say it. Teaching has evolved just as diving has since the 60s. We've gotten past diving with only one second stage and no SPG. PDCs are quite common and this is just the equipment. I doubt you would find "Having Fun with Dick and Jane" in today's modern classroom. Why? They used antiquated teaching methods. Denial doesn't make them less antiquated. It doesn't make them any more useful either. We don't need to design SB's Old Fart's Scuba Course. Let's keep it modern and relevant!

 

[ScubaSteve]

As long as by "modern and relevant" you are not implying that we should eliminate the tables and teach only a single type of dive computer. This does nothing to make a stronger diver IMO. Teach tables and a variation of many computers..

 

[DCBC]

I might note, that you have failed miserably in showing that a longer class using sub par teaching methodologies (antiquated), can result in a better class. Length of class is not the answer. What we should be concentrating on are the universal skills needed to be a safe and competent Scuba Diver.

1. You have equated a longer course to antiquated techniques.

2. You have absolutely no reason (other than your own personal bias) to justify such a statement.

3. You fail to accept the what is, the results of today's diver education, in-which many divers are ill prepared to look after themselves or their buddy and that there is more dependence on DMs and Instructors for the safety of certified divers.

4. You apparently credit the state of excellence of today's diving education methods to improved educational techniques and advocate courses to be shortened.

5. I'm just thankful that you aren't the person teaching my family.

There is something lodged in your mind that makes it impossible for you to accept anything I say. So be it, I will not waste my time. Have a good day.