The "Official" SB Scuba Course?

[kjack_1]

I think you kinda Hit the nail on the head with scuba certs, The agencies provide an outline but it is up to the instructor to teaching them propperly. Maby if they would send out a survey when they mail the card to you to get an idea of instructors performance stuff would get taught to appropriate guidelines like calculating repetitive dives. I do think that PADI is kinda minimal on their outline though, dont know about other courses and they push trying to get training without giving students a little understanding to find the direction they want to go, which is why i would like to see an OW course that is focused on a touch of AOW, Rescue, and present the facts of Nitrox (one of my friends swears that if he gets nitrox he will have a longer bottom time (like he has a bigger tank) when he sucks air like crazy and i keep talking him out of it so he can get control on his breathing first then go nitrox)

New divers just don't know if they've been taught correctly/appropriately or not. I've got a couple new divers where I work. They believe they can go just about anywhere. What we've been taught in classes/courses is taken as gospel - and is put forth as such.

Where did your friend get the notion that diving nitrox is *the* way to go? Prolly someone told him that and now it's true for him.

 

[kjack_1]

I fully agree with you on this without reservation.

Most instructors know their skills inside and out, but some are simply TERRIBLE at imparting the skill. They have to spend a lot of personal time with several students during the duration of their course and their courses seem to last SOOOO long. Instructors who do not keep up with the art and science of teaching are quite prone to this. It's takes just as much effort to stay current as an instructor as it does as a diver, and actually more so. Just teaching MORE classes is not the answer either.

My NAUI ITC ingrained something into me that I hope I never lose: My best class will always be my next one! If you haven't evolved much as an instructor, then my bet is that your classes are boring and irrelevant. Teaching in the same way you were taught should be a HUGE red flag indicating that.

NetDoc - if an instructor is terrible, how did they make it through their instructor training? I had to take a course on instructor training before I could be an training instructor (not diving related). My instructors were rather blunt with the class. We started with 20 wannabes - by the time we were through 12 weeks later - there was only 15 left. Not saying that was the right way - but it weeded out those folks that had all the book smarts but couldn't tie their shoes.

 

[The Chairman]

1. You have equated a longer course to antiquated techniques.

Work on reading comprehension: I said a longer course is not necessarily a better course AND antiquated teaching methodologies will result in a longer course. Putting words into my mouth does not foster communication.

2. You have absolutely no reason (other than your own personal bias) to justify such a statement.

Actually, there is a LOT of research that will indicate precisely what I have been saying. Boulderjohn has a better handle on that than I do. However, I would suggest that you have absolutely no reason (other than your own personal bias) to justify any of your statements. Please show me the research to disprove this. Thanks.

3. You fail to accept the what is, the results of today's diver education, in-which many divers are ill prepared to look after themselves or their buddy and that there is more dependence on DMs and Instructors for the safety of certified divers.

This was also the case back in the 60s, the 70s, the 80 and the 90s. You have yet to show, other than with anecdotal evidence, that Scuba Divers today are LESS safe. Yeah, yeah, we know: divers were divers back then! Shenanigans.

4. You apparently credit the state of excellence of today's diving education methods to improved educational techniques and advocate courses to be shortened.

While instructional techniques have evolved, people like you seem to want to keep teaching with old methodologies. Next you'll tell me that cars aren't what they "used" to be, yada, yada, yada. I don't advocate for courses to be SHORTENED. I advocate that they become more efficient and relevant. Quite often this results in a shorter course with better trained students. They are more fun as well which is probably the real reason why the local shop has more students than you! People are attracted to fun and not to egos.

5. I'm just thankful that you aren't the person teaching my family.

Me too. I can't stand peeps telling me how to do my job and constantly living in the past!

There is something lodged in your mind that makes it impossible for you to accept anything I say. So be it, I will not waste my time. Have a good day.

Wow. What an overstatement. I disagree with you on one subject and you extend it to all subjects. Perhaps the converse is more true? I don't think YOU are used to people disagreeing with you. Let me guess: If it's not the way YOU do it, then it must be wrong? I'm just askin'!

 

[The Chairman]

NetDoc - if an instructor is terrible, how did they make it through their instructor training? I had to take a course on instructor training before I could be an training instructor (not diving related). My instructors were rather blunt with the class. We started with 20 wannabes - by the time we were through 12 weeks later - there was only 15 left. Not saying that was the right way - but it weeded out those folks that had all the book smarts but couldn't tie their shoes.

Right or wrong, most IDCs are only a week long and they are not created equal. Mine included college professors, physicians, professional educators and divers whose fins I am not worthy to carry. There were only TWO instructor candidates and up to 27 evaluators for any particular session. It was brutal at times and did not need to be.

While I benefited greatly from the course, I often found the harshness counterproductive. The other candidate and I scored an average 98% on all written exams and we both had excellent skill competencies. I was there to learn how to teach and not how to dive. I was there to learn how to convey concepts, not to learn those concepts. The evaluators were most brutal with any skill/conceptual error almost to distraction. Quite often the variances in skill or technique I was held accountable for were trivial or were fundamental to the types of people I intended to teach: kids. Quite often I was given an apology for the harshness of a particular critique, and a few just enjoyed watching us squirm. Fortunately, I never adopted this harshness into my instructional techniques.

Since then, I have participated in about a dozen other ITCs for three agencies and have seen an incredible range of scholarship presented. In my mind, the greatest task an instructor has is one of managing their class. Fun, efficiency, accountability and consistency all factor into making a Scuba Class successful. I have seen way too many instructors mismanage efficiency and wonder why their students don't retain what they taught them, EVEN THOUGH the student repeated the skill several times. There is a better way to teach students and it often results in a shorter class. This is not always true as there are some individuals who demand a lot more attention and development. These almost always become one-on-one projects and can take up to five times as long as an average student. Why penalize the rest by teaching to the one percent who just can't seem to get it? Length of class is a poor indicator of a class' success.

 

[DCBC]

While instructional techniques have evolved, people like you seem to want to keep teaching with old methodologies....I can't stand peeps telling me how to do my job and constantly living in the past!

People like me. I see, you purport to know how I teach my classes without any actual information. You base longer courses with antiquated methods of instruction, without any justification. Perhaps you come to this conclusion through your superior knowledge of the subject matter? No. Your experience? I think not. Then how? Yes, through your unjustified opinions and personal bias.

As the Chairman, I think it's obvious that no one can tell you anything. You are too busy telling others things that you don't know.

 

[The Chairman]

People like me. I see, you purport to know how I teach my classes without any actual information. You base longer courses with antiquated methods of instruction, without any justification. Perhaps you come to this conclusion through your superior knowledge of the subject matter? No. Your experience? I think not. Then how? Yes, through your unjustified opinions and personal bias.

As the Chairman, I think it's obvious that no one can tell you anything. You are too busy telling others things that you don't know.

PM sent.

 

[*dave*]

Of course, it's usually not Pete who drives these threads into the crapper, but he's certainly done a fine job of derailing the effort this time around. Pete, are you bored?

It's been done several times in various forms and always seems to end up as an exercise in mental masturbation. Let's see where it goes this time.

 

[imwright1985]

New divers just don't know if they've been taught correctly/appropriately or not. I've got a couple new divers where I work. They believe they can go just about anywhere. What we've been taught in classes/courses is taken as gospel - and is put forth as such.

Where did your friend get the notion that diving nitrox is *the* way to go? Prolly someone told him that and now it's true for him.

He walked into our one LDS and they had a sign that said stay deeper longer with nitrox certification. Asked his "highly experienced" scuba buddy and said that was all he dove because it added like 1/2 hr potential down time to his dives. I Explained to him if an AL80 lasts you 25 mins @30 feet, your going to waste a ton of cash on nitrox unless you get that fixed. I could understand I think its called Hypoxia (where your body sucks up oxygen and you get CO2 hits really easy) being a good reason to switch to nitrox early but other than that actual nitrox use should wait till your efficient with air

 

[The Chairman]

Pete, are you bored?

Just being the voice of reason here!

Do you have a problem with a course that is more efficient and fun too? I'm just askin!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Perhaps the macho attitudes can be shelved so that the regular programming can be continued. While I doubt it will go anywhere, I do believe there was a lot of good information coming out here until the fighting began that apparently cannot be stopped.