No weights with steel tank unsafe?

[heavyjeffd]

I'm sorry, your original scenario was a BC failure... not an OOA ascent situation. With so many posting to this thread concerning a BC failure, I would suggest you start a new thread concerning OOA issues for a negatively buoyant diver. That is a thread I will avoid.... because, I'm not a moron...

Hahah yes, I'm with you there. Never really understood OOA if you properly prepare.

I'm referring only to BC wing failure really.

I'm pretty confident I could swim myself up, but I think I may be able to get the extra gas I want at times with something a little closer to neutral.

I don't want to deal with doubles I don't think. It is appealing, but I don't want to deal with having to swap stuff around on my BC every time I go back and forth between single/double. I'd have to have a second BC for that and I'm not really ready for that!

Thanks again for all your input.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Hahah yes, I'm with you there. Never really understood OOA if you properly prepare.

I'm referring only to BC wing failure really.

I'm pretty confident I could swim myself up, but I think I may be able to get the extra gas I want at times with something a little closer to neutral.

I don't want to deal with doubles I don't think. It is appealing, but I don't want to deal with having to swap stuff around on my BC every time I go back and forth between single/double. I'd have to have a second BC for that and I'm not really ready for that!

Thanks again for all your input.

There is one tank, and to my knowledge, only one tank that is more buoyant that an Al80.. it is made by Faber.. is a FX series (chrome moly steeL) low pressure tank.. empty it is 8 lbs (versus the 5 for an AL 80) and weighs 25 lbs...fill pressure is 2650.

Just make a set of double out of them.. would be heavier than a single, but much ligher than any other set of double...they float..and you get a ton of gas...160 cu ft at normal fill.. and any overfill gets you to silly numbers.

I believe the tank floats even when full.

 

[MSilvia]

Just had an interesting thought... why not carry a small clamp in a pocket in case of emergency? If your wing was punctured, you could maybe remove the BC, then fold and clamp the puncture. That should let the wing hold gas well enough to get you home.

Any thoughts?

 

[mksmith713]

Do you remember OW course?
Deflated BC, lungs full, surface at eye level?
That still holds true.
You should NEVER rely on your BC to keep you neutrally bouyant.

 

[Gombessa]

Faber.. is a FX series (chrome moly steeL) low pressure tank.. empty it is 8 lbs (versus the 5 for an AL 80) and weighs 25 lbs...fill pressure is 2650

... and any overfill gets you to silly numbers.

Is there an established history of overfilling these FX "stage" tanks? Their decreased weight is a function of using less material, and without knowing any more I'd be very concerned about promoting overfills on steel tanks with significantly thinner sidewalls.

 

[drdaddy]

Hi guys.

I'm considering purchasing a tank rather than continuously renting partially because I just like to own all my own gear and because the Worthington 130's are really attractive to me being almost the same size as the AL80's yet a lot more air. However, I have a concern about the buoyancy.

I am one of those really negatively buoyant people. Even in my 3mm Pinnacle wetsuit 4lbs is more weight than I need (I'm slightly negatively buoyant without them). Currently in fresh water wearing a Scubapro hybrid shorts/longsleeeved shirt (1mm neoprene front/back) I dive with no weights at all as I honestly don't need it. Even with an AL80 <500psi, I am still negative.

Fortunately I am large chested/lunged and can fairly easily control my buoyancy with breathing, sometimes I need to keep just a touch of air in my Ranger. I don't really have any problems with my buoyancy or controlling it, although I do feel like it's improving constantly and it's something I'm always consciesously working on.

I sink like a rock!

So my concern is that with a steel tank I could potentially be "too heavy", but it seems that I'm too heavy anyway all the time so it may be a moot concern.

So as a result, should I not ever purchase and/or dive with a steel tank? Should I just stick to AL since they'll be positive at the end of my dive?

I'm just looking for some additional feedback and opinions, please feel free to share them. I am open to all suggestions.

Thanks!

Jeff

I dive regularly with hp 3442 100s. A friend (dive shop owner) loves his 120s and has been pushing them on me (in a friendly way). However, I keep what I have because I want to be able to, in an emergency, drop weight and go to the top.

It's up to you, but be sure to have a buddy to carry you up. Those large lungs of yours will be of no help in an OOA situation or BCD failure.

Someone mentioned being able to stay at the surface in an emergency. I found rough seas and being out of breath doesn't lead to easily mouth blowing up anything. Dropping thousands of dollars of gear does not come easily - but it is your life.

Another thing to consider is NDLs. More air doesn't necessarily mean longer dives. It means longer dives in my case as Jetty dives usually have a lot of 15 to 25 feet in them and 50 ft maximum, but 100 ft dives with 130s would mean Nitrox and/or longer deck times between dives.

 

[elan]

Do you remember OW course?
Deflated BC, lungs full, surface at eye level?
That still holds true.
You should NEVER rely on your BC to keep you neutrally bouyant.

I would take this statement for real if I had lungs capable of holding 20-30lb of air

 

[waynne fowler]

Hi guys.

I'm considering purchasing a tank rather than continuously renting partially because I just like to own all my own gear and because the Worthington 130's are really attractive to me being almost the same size as the AL80's yet a lot more air. However, I have a concern about the buoyancy.

I am one of those really negatively buoyant people. Even in my 3mm Pinnacle wetsuit 4lbs is more weight than I need (I'm slightly negatively buoyant without them). Currently in fresh water wearing a Scubapro hybrid shorts/longsleeeved shirt (1mm neoprene front/back) I dive with no weights at all as I honestly don't need it. Even with an AL80 <500psi, I am still negative.

Fortunately I am large chested/lunged and can fairly easily control my buoyancy with breathing, sometimes I need to keep just a touch of air in my Ranger. I don't really have any problems with my buoyancy or controlling it, although I do feel like it's improving constantly and it's something I'm always consciesously working on.

I sink like a rock!

So my concern is that with a steel tank I could potentially be "too heavy", but it seems that I'm too heavy anyway all the time so it may be a moot concern.

So as a result, should I not ever purchase and/or dive with a steel tank? Should I just stick to AL since they'll be positive at the end of my dive?

I'm just looking for some additional feedback and opinions, please feel free to share them. I am open to all suggestions.

Thanks!

Jeff

I see this kind of thing a lot... a fairly new diver gets caught up in the idea they need scad's of gas.. and while you can't have too much air... it's a matter of is the amount your carrying doing you any good or not.. so the newer folks buy HUGE tanks... too big for them in many case's... I have a friend who weights about 125 and bought a 130.. it's a pig on her back but she loves it cuz she can stay down for well over an hour... the problem... in another 6 months when her breathing rate comes into its own... she won't need that much gas to do the same dives... she'll end up hating the weight of the tank.. she already dives with 0 lead and is too heavy... can't talk her into balancing the rig as that would mean she has to get out of the water in 45 min's with a steal 80 (IMO the right size tank for her)... in another 50 dives or so she'll be doing the dives she's doing now and getting the same amount of time....
My advice... don't buy tanks right away and don't buy them based on the amount of gas they carry... wait till you have an idea about your consumption rate, what kinds of dives you want to do and most importantly is that they 'fit' you right..
Your breathing rate today is probably not what it will be in another 50 or so dives HeavyJeff... IMVHO those 130's sound like they would not be the optimum choice for you.

FWIW Jeff... you may be able to swim your kit up.. but thats the easy part... hell I can swim a 20# block of lead up from 50 feet.. the real trick is CAN YOU KEEP IT ON THE SURFACE FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME say... 10 min's... That's the bigger question for you.

Good luck Jeff. Dive safe

 

[MSilvia]

I would take this statement for real if I had lungs capable of holding 20-30lb of air

Why are you diving 20-30 lbs overweighted?

 

[heavyjeffd]

I dive regularly with hp 3442 100s. A friend (dive shop owner) loves his 120s and has been pushing them on me (in a friendly way). However, I keep what I have because I want to be able to, in an emergency, drop weight and go to the top.

It's up to you, but be sure to have a buddy to carry you up. Those large lungs of yours will be of no help in an OOA situation or BCD failure.

Someone mentioned being able to stay at the surface in an emergency. I found rough seas and being out of breath doesn't lead to easily mouth blowing up anything. Dropping thousands of dollars of gear does not come easily - but it is your life.

Another thing to consider is NDLs. More air doesn't necessarily mean longer dives. It means longer dives in my case as Jetty dives usually have a lot of 15 to 25 feet in them and 50 ft maximum, but 100 ft dives with 130s would mean Nitrox and/or longer deck times between dives.

I'd only really want more air in situations where I could take advantage of the higher NDL, of course.