Anyone else have a problem with a buddy grabbing your primary?

[elan]

So my question, "Is it too much to ask that a buddy, who starts to experience out-of-air problems, bangs on his/her tank or somehow gets my attention, and then requests my octopus?" Or, must we all learn to comply with this "new standard" which is starting to become well-known, that all technical divers donate their long primary and that it's "acceptable" to just grab it?

Yes, man, it's to much to ask the panicking person to bang on the tank.

Why just not take a very good care of him/her so they make it to the surface and then sue him/her later for an attempt to kill you by disconnecting you from the air supply. That was a joke.

You are overreacting , panicking person does not think. All he sees is the reg that works. Those octo in the triangle is only good when you dive PADI style. It does not work if you trim horizontally - it will take forever to look for that octo somewhere in the triangle or flying somewhere. Which is also probably full of sand

 

[IDS_Bill]

If it is a regular occurrence then why not prepare for it? A long hose primary with bungee backup deals with this scenario quite nicely. My primary can come out of my mouth for any reason at any time and I know exactly where my backup is and takes a second to start breathing off of it.

Yes it deals with the scenario but are we really talking about it being okay to have someone grabbing at your primary? If I am underwater and someone starts grabbing at my primary they are going to get punched away from me while I am uncoiling my long hose to donate. Chances are is they are already panicking the next thing they will do is go for the surface and try to drag you with them.

 

[Walter]

I've brought lots of OOA divers to the surface. I remember one (cave instructor) reaching for my primary without asking. One (experienced DM) reached for my octo without asking. All the others have signaled and taken the regulator I handed them. While it does happen, it's a myth that an OOA diver will always grab your primary.

 

[TSandM]

If I donate my primary to some nearly-panicked diver and then suck on a non-working secondary, I'm going to have a heck of a time trying to get a breath on my primary again.

This really isn't going to happen, if you check both of your regulators before you dive, and if the secondary is bungied around your neck so it isn't dragging anywhere. If I put my backup in my mouth and it won't give me any air, I know my left post is rolled off . . . (and yes, I had that pulled on me in a class once!)

 

[elan]

If I am underwater and someone starts grabbing at my primary they are going to get punched away from me while I am uncoiling my long hose to donate.

Oh that's how the Tech Instructors are trained ? Nice

 

[flareless]

I'm a bit confused by the crossover discussion between Tec and Rec OOG situations.

Rec = OOG diver goes on Buddy's Octo
Tec = OOG diver goes on Teammate's Primary

There is no "training" that I know of where divers are taught to simply rip a reg out of someone's mouth. A diver who is out of gas and far from their teammate / buddy may not have the manners or for that matter the gas in their lungs for an "out of air / share air" signal. While ripping isn't acceptable or even condoned, drowning is even less so.

I've donated in two instances; One a Tec diver at 80 feet and the second just last week to a diver starting his safety stop with only 100 lbs. In both cases the divers signalled their intention and the gas pass went fine.

Pick the discipline whose philosophy appeals to you the most (you don't have to do deep deco to enjoy Tec), get the required training and dive. Oh, and if you're buddy is always running out of air and ripping out your primary, you might want to find a different buddy.

 

[mdb]

There are, of course, no absolutes in diving and OOA scenarios.

I've had two real OOA incidents where the OOA diver grabbed/took my primary. The divers were
very experienced, just in a bit of a state. In both cases I went to my secondary, a Poseidon, no wrong way to put it in your mouth.

Once stable we made controlled ascents with no further problems. One incident was @ 130 FSW and the other @ about 70-80 FSW. The OOA divers were starving for air and they took it.

I have had other times when OOA signals were given, regs donated, and clean ascents made.

Be prepared for both.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm a bit confused by the crossover discussion between Tec and Rec OOG situations.

Rec = OOG diver goes on Buddy's Octo
Tec = OOG diver goes on Teammate's Primary

Not always the case. What if your recreational dive buddy is using an inline secondary ... in which case there IS no octo.

You donate based on your equipment configuration. As mdb states above, there are no absolutes.

There is no "training" that I know of where divers are taught to simply rip a reg out of someone's mouth. A diver who is out of gas and far from their teammate / buddy may not have the manners or for that matter the gas in their lungs for an "out of air / share air" signal. While ripping isn't acceptable or even condoned, drowning is even less so.

Divers are not "trained" to rip a reg out of someone's mouth ... but when stress sets in people sometimes have a nasty tendency to forget their training and fall back on survival instincts. Do you know how you would respond to a diver who's on the verge of panic?

I've donated in two instances; One a Tec diver at 80 feet and the second just last week to a diver starting his safety stop with only 100 lbs. In both cases the divers signalled their intention and the gas pass went fine.

LOA situations tend to go more orderly than OOA situations, simply because the diver is still breathing.

Pick the discipline whose philosophy appeals to you the most (you don't have to do deep deco to enjoy Tec), get the required training and dive. Oh, and if you're buddy is always running out of air and ripping out your primary, you might want to find a different buddy.

Or spend more of your dive planning effort focusing on gas management ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Or spend more of your dive planning effort focusing on gas management ...

You folks sure have a lot of OOA situations! Along with Bob's "planning" comment, I will even keep track of buddies air levels when they last much longer than I do. If everyone knows everyones psi, OOA is only due catastrophe, which rarely happens (at least in warm water AFAIS).

 

[Teamcasa]

There are, of course, no absolutes in diving and OOA scenarios.

This is the bottom line.

Gear selection and configuration determine the optimum air sharing solution. Training, proper dive planing and clear buddy communication helps to insure that the optimum air sharing solution actually happens. - That's all fine until the panicked OOA diver and not your well behaved and trained buddy, shows up with his eyes looking like a stomped on bullfrog, grabs whatever is in his reach.

At that moment, It does not matter whether your hose is long, short, black, yellow, connected to a pony or part of your BC. He will find a regulator. What's important is how you handle it after Mr. Bigeyes starts breathing again. Most of the time, they settle down and your training and experience kicks in and all ends well. Sometimes, they end up being a thread in Accidents & Incidents.