A Cert Card for everything, including how to tie your shoe...

[DCBC]

I said that the chances of an unconscious diver being brought to the surface and living were close to zero. I got this from doctors participating on another thread on this topic.

You said it was not true, because you knew a toxing diver that had been brought to the surface.

No, I simply disagree. I didn't say that I knew a toxing diver, I said that the toxing diver was me. I also mentioned (now for the third time) that people are recovered underwater quite often and live. It's not always a body recovery, as you elluded to. You (as you normally do) ignore the points made and spin the conversation in another direction.

The line has to be drawn between basic rescue skills and advanced rescue skills. You and PADI disagree on where to draw that line.

Yes, what PADI calls "advanced," I call minimally required. PADI doesn't teach what I called advanced.

Where you draw the line includes surfacing an unconscious diver as a basic rescue skill. I said I did not mind it not being considered a basic skill for OW because the likelihood of an OW diver finding an unconscious diver, surfacing the diver, and having the diver survive was so very, very remote.

I don't believe it to be remote. I've recovered too many divers from depth because of narcosis to say that.

That was the entire point made. You responded with two straw man arguments. (A straw man is an argument that you feel you can win, even though it is not the one your opponent was actually arguing.)

John, why do you persist? The majority of the World's training agencies in there wisdom believe that "basic rescue skills" (what you and PADI call advanced) are minimally required skills for a basic diver. I agree with the world's training agencies, you side with PADI and a couple of physicians that gave comments on ScubaBoard. Ok. We are not going to change each others minds, so lets give it a rest.

 

[Belce]

What is the difference between PADI OW and GUE Fundies

PADi cert gets you a tank of air

GUE cert and a few dollars gets you a cup of coffee at Starbucks

I should point out, I am a coffee snob and only drink Starbucks when someone else buys.

 

[MikeSK]

Personally..i think more of todays divers should be taking course after course after course. To many divers stop at OW, then travel solo to Bonaire and expect someone to hold thier hand

I started diving in 94 or so. To date i have 136 dives. I've been dive free for about five years or so cause I need all new gear and have no money right now. But that's changing this year.

In that time, I've obtained the following certs

OW
AOW
Rescue
Divemaster
Night Diver
Medic First Aid
PPB
Ice Diver
Deep Diver
Oxygen First Aid
Master Scuba Diver

I took all those courses for a couple reasons.

1) Up until my daughter got certfied a couple years ago, I never really had a steady buddy, and didn't really know about clubs, so classes were my only means to keep diving.
2) Once i was hooked I wanted to improve my knowledge and skills to make sure I'd be safe, and to increase my level of expertise

In the near future I want to get the following certs

Nitrox
Drysuit
UW Photo
Solo

And some I'd like to take.
Cave diver (intro at least
DPV Diver (cause why not? i've never used one and wouldnt think of doing so without some kinda instruction)

There are also a couple special certs that i've become aware of that i'd like to get.

Great White Awareness in South Africa
Manta Specialty in Yap
Dolphin Awareness in Roatan.

I realize those three are probably "gimmicks" but...If i'm lucky enough to be able to travel to those destinations, I see it as another souvenier, albeit one I can show off and not many people have.

I realize that there's a TON of other certs. Some questionable in value, some not. But IMO ALL of them offer at the very least knowledge that I don't have but would possibly like to. The economy is such right now that If i have the money, and i want to dive, why not throw a couple bucks at an instructor?

 

[MikeSK]

LOL..just discovered there's a cert for diving the SPIEGEL GROVE

 

[SCUBASailor]

I took PPB, and learned from it. After PPB, i went on a night dive, and found that the weight of my dive light overweighted me. I think it would have taken me quite a long time to tune my weights that finely in an different environment. We also did some beneficial, methodical exercises that I don't think a mentor would set up.

I agree that the certs are not difficult, and the topics can be picked up from a mentor. But here, I have no mentor. Our local SCUBA community is pretty sad. There is no one I can find around here who is willing to "waste" a dive mentoring me. For me to do a deep dive requires a weekend trip and significant expense. By paying for the cert, I get a competent mentor from the shop an hour away, and I don't feel bad for asking them to take time out of an expensive dive to work with me.

I think the value of the training (certs) just depends on your individual circumstances.

 

[Thalassamania]

I took PPB, and learned from it. After PPB, i went on a night dive, and found that the weight of my dive light overweighted me. I think it would have taken me quite a long time to tune my weights that finely in an different environment. We also did some beneficial, methodical exercises that I don't think a mentor would set up.

I agree that the certs are not difficult, and the topics can be picked up from a mentor. But here, I have no mentor. Our local SCUBA community is pretty sad. There is no one I can find around here who is willing to "waste" a dive mentoring me. For me to do a deep dive requires a weekend trip and significant expense. By paying for the cert, I get a competent mentor from the shop an hour away, and I don't feel bad for asking them to take time out of an expensive dive to work with me.

I think the value of the training (certs) just depends on your individual circumstances.

The question is not whether PPB (or similar) might be useful, the question is, "why is PPB necessary?" it used to be (and still is for many of us) included as part of open water.

 

[drrich2]

I imagine there is a difference between 'good enough to stay off the reef & dive with a reasonable level of comfort' (OW buoyancy instruction) vs. more optimized buoyancy for less weight usage and more precise control for better comfort (Peak Performance).

Not everybody wants to wait to have everything down to the 'excellent' state before getting a C card & going diving. Some are content to get 'good enough for what they're going to do in the near-term future,' then add training to that as time goes by.

It reminds me of the strong debate on this forum on whether to pursue AOW right after OW, and thus build on OW training immediately before diving much independently, vs. waiting until after diving, oh, 20 to 50 times, so as to come to the AOW course with a better baseline skill set so as to more efficiently use the course & instructor time to get more out of it.

Different strokes, different folks.

Richard.

 

[Thalassamania]

"... more optimized buoyancy for less weight usage and more precise control for better comfort (Peak Performance)." Not enough "more" in my book.

 

[Kingpatzer]

The question is not whether PPB (or similar) might be useful, the question is, "why is PPB necessary?" it used to be (and still is for many of us) included as part of open water.

The answer is that your education model does not dominate the marketplace.

 

[Thalassamania]

Correct, the dominant model that you subscribe to has new divers either popping to the surface like corks or mucking about on the bottom until they pay an extra fee to learn what could be easily taught by a competent instructor in the same time as the dominant model courses. Check out what Grateful Diver or BoulderJohn are doing when it comes to teaching buoyancy, you might get up off your knees and learn something.