How long did you wait before you started Solo Diving?

[master00sniper]

In my experience PADI's usually wrong, but that doesn't make you right either.

This is true. Is it not okay to assume then, that every new diver is different, every dive is different, every location is different, and sometimes the right new diver at an easy dive location doing easy dives with the right equipment (like 40% of you, perhaps?) is not being a dangerous or foolhardy cretin?

 

[DevonDiver]

Rob,

Just wondering, if a cave diver never wants to go beyond NDL is he a technical diver? What makes a technical diver a technical diver? Is it going beyond NDL, special gear, special classes? I could care less what solo is classified as but there are gear considerations and things that need to be learned - in formal class or not.

What is a technical mindset vs recreational mindset?

The term 'Technical Diving' has some slight variations depending on the individual/agency concerned. However, there is a common consensus about the broad definition of technical diving. That is; 'technical diving' is defined as containing one or more of the following elements:

1) Gas changes using more than 1 gas mixture.
2) Overhead or ceiling environment preventing direct access to the surface.
3) Use of oxygen mixes in excess of 40%.
4) Use of hypoxic breathing gases, containing helium and/or other exotic gases.

As you can see, solo diving does not contain any of those elements.

However, whilst solo diving is definitively not technical diving, there are a number of attributes that the disciplines share. For instance:

1) Self-reliance.
2) Redundancy.
3) Precision in dive planning and conduct.
4) Focus on safety - calculating risk and applying appropriate procedures.

It is wrong to consider solo diving to be technical diving by considering the simularities alone, and not considering the differences.

 

[DevonDiver]

My instructor, one who has had as many dives as you have had, has done basically everything you can do diving, and has been certified since 1963 GAVE ME THE OKAY FOR SOLO DIVING.

What's his name and instructor number?

What dive center?

 

[SeaYoda]

I think the cards have been stacked against solo since it has been taboo for so long. I can see the risk and equipment making it viable to call it as technical as "overhead environment". Diving deeper into overhead environments that go beyond NDL is another animal to me. It comes down to exposure and gas that are different.

 

[SeaYoda]

Demonstrate mature, sound judgement concerning dive planning and execution.

You don't see that till the brain fully matures at 25.

I love this!

 

[SeaYoda]

Can Solo Diving be done responsibly?
Yes, but let's be clear about what responsible solo diving is and what it is not. It requires experienced scuba divers willing to make the necessary commitment to train and equip themselves to accept the added risks involved. That is to say, a person with the required attitude and aptitude to pursue responsible solo diving. This is true in other adventure sport activities such as solo rock climbing.
It is important to clarify what responsible solo scuba diving is. PADI views it as a form of technical diving and not for everybody. To responsibly engage in solo scuba diving, a diver must first be highly experienced, have a hundred or so buddy accompanied scuba dives, be absolutely self-reliant and apply the specialized procedures and equipment needed to engage in the activity. This includes, but is not limited to redundant air sources, specialized equipment configurations, specific dive planning, and management of solo diving problems and emergencies. When solo diving is performed within this description, we see a place for it. Responsible solo diving is not diving alone without the mental discipline, attitude or equipment. That said, no amount of redundant equipment can effectively back up a diver's brain better than another individual.

Looks like PADI thinks solo is technical?

The statment about the brain depends on the quality of your buddy's brain

 

[DevonDiver]

I think the cards have been stacked against solo since it has been taboo for so long.

It isn't really taboo. Even the PADI policy endorses the concept of it - with the right training, experience and attitude.

PADI views it as a form of technical diving, in order to differentiate it from the PADI recreational diving program. Basically, they mean it is outside of mainstream recreational diving..and the only other non-military/commercial/scientific form of diving that exists is technical. So they lumped it into that.

However, no technical or cave diving agency defines it as such. Which matters most?

Also, it is worth considering PADI's definition of technical diving:
PADI defines technical diving as: "diving other than conventional commercial or recreational diving that takes divers beyond recreational diving limits. It is further defined as an activity that includes one or more of the following: diving beyond 40 meters/130 feet, required stage decompression, diving in an overhead environment beyond 130 linear feet from the surface, accelerated stage decompression and/or the use of multiple gas mixtures in a single dive.

I can see the risk and equipment making it viable to call it as technical as "overhead environment".

I disagree. The risks are very different and not comparible.

The equipment is not the same. You realise tech/cave uses more than just a set of doubles right??

You realise that those 'extra' tanks carried by tech divers are not just 'ponies'?

Again, this is confusion on the need for redundancy...

Solo Redundancy - Solo divers need an alternative, independant air source. In the event of primary air source failure they will not have a buddy available to share air. They need an independant air source to enable them to effect an immediate ascent to the surface. Redundancy is preferable to CESA. However, CESA is still a valid option for a solo diver.

Tech Redundancy - Tech divers need the ability to isolate a valve or regulator, should it leak, whilst still accessing the gas they have planned and brought to survive that dive. Direct access to the surface is impossible (no CESA) and your buddy may not have sufficient quantity of gas to share for you to reach the surface.

It is easy to assume that, because tech divers are capable of safe solo diving, that the two disciplines are comparable. As a consequence, it needs to be remember that solo divers are not trained or equipped to do tech diving. That is the more important side of the comparison.

 

[master00sniper]

What's his name and instructor number?

What dive center?

John Smith

Cool Dive Center, 123 Stu Pidass Ave.

In all seriousness he's a very knowledgeable diver. Just because he doesn't agree with PADI on one or two things, doesn't mean I'm gonna give up his information so he could possibly get in some kind of trouble for it.

 

[DevonDiver]

In all seriousness he's a very knowledgeable diver.

How would you know that? What possible point of reference do you have to determine his relative knowledge and competence as a scuba instructor??

You've done one course, with one instructor. What sort of 'sample group' is that to form a comparative opinion.

In your expert opinion he is knowledgeable?? Really...think about what you're saying...

doesn't mean I'm gonna give up his information so he could possibly get in some kind of trouble for it.

That fact that you acknowledge he could get in trouble for it.... that speaks volumes.

It's not just PADI....any scuba agency would have a simular view.

If he came here on the forum and advocated that inexperienced divers went solo, he'd be banned from here. Enough said....

Yep....sounds like a great instructor to me.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

you say that most scuba deaths come from not following rules...I say most die from bilnd panic............from not being trainded to deal with panic
Panic is a problem. It also is tied to breaking rules quite often. I think it is both- breaking rules out of arrogance, and panic.

I have issue with you saying that SOLO diving is not "technical Diving" any solo diver Better know and use the same metheds of diving as any Deep, cave, Wreck diver out there, so what are you saying? Do We solo divers do deco/ well ya some of use. So what part of Tec diving do we not meet?
You don't have to be deco certified to be a solo diver. Many parts.

I'm sorry but you seem to be puffed up with pride there buddy and you seem to be more then happy to slam a new diver. Rather then kick the guy try to tell him more about what it really takes to be a good, safe, smart diver. Don't you rembber what it was like to be new at it?

I find Devon to be very knowledgable and a man who is usually right on the money with his advice. He is not trying to kick anyone, but help them. He is not, however, enabling bad choices by new divers, which many seem to be doing. The new diver was not seeking info, so much, as seeking validation for already diving.

Interesting? No surprise? It is a surprise. You treated me like I was the one new fool who had ever considered diving solo right out of OW. At least I had the sense to come here and ask what I should know before I do. But you didn't ask for information as much as announce your intentions and why it was fine because of how good you are.

Also, in response to your quotes about 'knowing better', my instructor was the one who told me I might want to try some solo dives. The book, although it does mention being qualified to dive with a buddy, does not mention being unqualified to solo dive, and ultimately PADI just wants to profit. Enough people start taking the SDI course, and PADI will have one out there as well. Your instructor most likely answered your question about when you should take the advanced course with this, "You are doing great, you should dive on your own for a while before you take the advanced class and get some experience diving." Which means diving without the supervision of the instructor, NOT solo diving. I have Never told an open water diver to go solo, have at it. I bet yours didn't mean what you got from it, either.

Also, I find it interesting you highlighted the 'sound judgement' qualification, but you did not highlight the 100 dive prerequisite. Is it because you did not know it existed? or is it because most people here dove solo before their 100th dive?

Dam you Devon DO YOU EVEN READ WHAT I WRITE?

lol

My instructor, one who has had as many dives as you have had, has done basically everything you can do diving, and has been certified since 1963 GAVE ME THE OKAY FOR SOLO DIVING. I would like to ask him about his. Please pm his name number and company. I will be glad to pay the phone charges.

geez. I've only mentioned it what, 3 or 4 different times on my threads? You always seem to ignore my points and just go on with your own bull ****. How many times have i said I'm not a self proclaimed solo diver? Maybe I haven't said it in the forum yet. Here we go I'M NOT A SELF PROCLAIMED SOLO DIVER. I'm just not gonna let not having a buddy stop me.

anything else I need to clarify for you in CAPS? I think you have figured out that button, thanks.

Also, in your post above, how the hell do you begin your ascent with your air off? Do you get all the way down to the bottom before you realize you were only breathing the air in the hose? Yeah maybe if the bottom is only 10 feet deep or so. Do you mean descent?

This is true. Is it not okay to assume then, that every new diver is different, every dive is different, every location is different, and sometimes the right new diver at an easy dive location doing easy dives with the right equipment (like 40% of you, perhaps?) is not being a dangerous or foolhardy cretin?

It is correct to assume that most divers are predictable, and there are a few anomalies. Not 40%. No.
Most often a new diver doesn't know enough to know the full extent of issues and dangers with even an easy site.