Instructors doing "trust me" dives.

[Puffer Fish]

Kathydee, wow, not sure what to say to that?

I've never taken, nor would I consider taking anyone on a "trust me" dive. I have taken an AOW diver down and offered to do swim thru's, if they wanted to, but we discussed it before the dive (they said they were not interested), but when we got down on the wreck, and tried a small one....she spent the rest of the dive doing them (with a huge smile on her face).

There were a number of frightening “Trust Me Dives” while traveling through SE Asia & Central America during my first several years of diving (before encountering DIR training and learning strong safety ethics).

In Bali Indonesia, we were introduced to Scuba by a DM who took us on 7 DSD's for $15 each down to 75 ft. We had no clue it was wrong. When we later showed up for OW class, the IDC was not thrilled with our log books.

In Malaysia Borneo, Turtle Cave a 20 something new DM lead well beyond the cavern warning sign into a 60ft deep cavern penetration without decent lights (I had 36 dives at the time and still thought DM’s were gods and didn't know I could challenge her lead).

At several sites in the Philippines, It took skill and knowledge to read & hit the radical down currents just right or you wouldn't make it. Many had perished at the sites. The guides were Instructors/technical divers or technical instructors - but I'd count these as “trust me dives”



There was quite a bit of peer pressure to join other "trust me" dives but I didn't.

In the Philippines a wreck instructor wanted to lead a penetration on a single Al80 into wreck passages around 100ft+ deep when the exit was not visible & single file was required. I had a sense that it was the warm up/test penetration for greater challenges that day.

In Sumatra Indonesia. They were annoyed when I refused to drop down to 180ft on air into canyons known for unpredictable currents. The nearest chamber was a 14 hour+ journey.

Many DM's and instructors offered dives which maxed out quite a bit below 125 ft on air.

I would not do any of this now.

 

[Selchie in LB]

So let us define a pinnacle dive as, "a dive that is within one's training and certification, but surpasses previous experience".

If a DM briefs the dive and it is a pinnacle dive for you, is it a "trust me" dive? Anyone?

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Being a noobie, I would have to say if the DM briefs the dive then it is not a trust me dive. If the brief is "trust me" then it is!

I would have to say that quite a few of my early (say OW/AOW training and about 10 more) dives have been trust me dives. I have since taken a more active role in dive planning especially since I have not had a consistent buddy.

 

[Cave Diver]

So let us define a pinnacle dive as, "a dive that is within one's training and certification, but surpasses previous experience".

If a DM briefs the dive and it is a pinnacle dive for you, is it a "trust me" dive? Anyone?

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I'm not sure I follow how it could be within your training and certification, but surpasses your previous experience. In order to get the certification, you must go through training (well, ok, in an ideal world anyway) and therefore you would by default have the experience. Can you elaborate, perhaps with a specific example?

Ian's definition is a good one. If something happened to the DM on that dive, do you have the skills, training, knowledge, experience to surface on your own? If so, then I'd have to say no, it's not a trust me dive.

 

[Cave Diver]

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Attention: I've gotten a couple of PM's since this thread started from people who shared an experience with me, but who did not post it in the thread. If anyone feels uncomfortable posting their experience, you may PM it to me and I will post it anonymously for you.

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[Cave Diver]

Being a noobie, I would have to say if the DM briefs the dive then it is not a trust me dive. If the brief is "trust me" then it is!

Not necessarily. The brief could be highly detailed, explaining how you're going to penetrate a wreck, giving specifics on depth, time, where you're going, etc. But if you're not trained for overhead, it's still a trust me dive.

 

[tridacna]

I had about 25 dives and joined a charter group on a NJ boat. I was "assigned" to dive with an experienced instructor. Wreck was at about 80 ft. We descended together and I followed him around for about 15 mins and then he motioned to follow him into an opening into the wreck. (On the sand under the wreck). It was tunnel-like with only room for one diver at a time. I thought that he knows what he's doing so I blindly followed him into the tunnel beneath the wreck. The walls were lined with huge spiny urchins. Almost no visibility. At about 20 yards in, we were at zero vis. He stopped - I saw that it was a dead end. He started to reverse and then gracefully kicked off my mask. I grabbed his fins to stop him. Miraculously found my mask, put it back on and slowly reversed back out of the wreck. When we both emerged, I had blown through most of my air - had about 600lbs left on a steel 120 - BT about 30mins. Water was cold. I gestured that I'm done and I'm ascending. He shrugs, followed me up to the granny line and waves goodbye and goes back down.

When he got back on board, hilarity ensued. Never did that again.

 

[kathydee]

Kathydee, wow, not sure what to say to that?

Hard to imagine from here, but there's quite a bit of cowboy diving going on in that part of the world, where money is scarce. It's pretty easy to find tanks with fossil hydro dates and beat up rental equipment that has never been properly serviced to go with the sketchy dive plans .

I'm just really grateful I happened into that little island home stay in Malaysia Borneo - where an American traveler jotted down the address to Scubaboard in my travel journal & I met all you wonderful SB folks who sorted me out !

Ian's definition is a good one. If something happened to the DM on that dive, do you have the skills, training, knowledge, experience to surface on your own? If so, then I'd have to say no, it's not a trust me dive.

Ah, almost all dives in SE Asia (and probably elsewhere) are guided by DM's and many of the clients have no compass, no computer, no navigation skills, no smb's and few know how to do proper ascents .

Using this definition - 90% of these dives are "trust me".

 

[Scott L]

When he got back on board, hilarity ensued. Never did that again.

Can you give us your definition of hilarity?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I was taking an advance nitrox/deco procedures class
in Key largo the past year whereas during our first OW deep dive (140ft) the instructor upon ascending to the deck level on the Speigel Grove led me in the interior into a relatively narrow corridor with little ambient light after 20-30 linear ft. This action was not in the dive plan at all. Having completed cavern class several years earlier, such action ran contrary to everything I learned. My nerves increasingly began to heighten when after proceeding further, the instructor made a 90 degree turn into a totally dark corridor. I unsnapped my back-up light (only light carried) only to find that the batteries were dead. At that point, I was both fumimg mad and petrified that he would continue the totally dark penetration to lower levels. He finally looked between his legs when I emphatically gave him a gesture signaling out which he luckily interpreted correctly.

Had this action been part of the dive plan I would probably have acquiesced to the idea knowing the distance involved and a general idea of the open placements. All in all, a very bad experience.

 

[Jax]

I'm not sure I follow how it could be within your training and certification, but surpasses your previous experience. In order to get the certification, you must go through training (well, ok, in an ideal world anyway) and therefore you would by default have the experience. Can you elaborate, perhaps with a specific example?

Ian's definition is a good one. If something happened to the DM on that dive, do you have the skills, training, knowledge, experience to surface on your own? If so, then I'd have to say no, it's not a trust me dive.

I like Ian's.

As an example, as an AOW diver, I could go to 130'. My deep dive was to 102fsw to certify. However, a wreck in Fiji was 132' to the sand, with the portholes at 120. That was a pinnacle dive that expanded my experience. I went to 122'.

According to one opinion, since I didn't choose the location / plan the dive, etc., it was a "trust me" dive. (Although I did verify the plan.)

According to Ian's definition, it was not.

Interesting the various definitions of a "trust me" dive.