What's the point of a long hose?

[Bubbletrubble]

Since when is kelp an overhead environment? I have never seen kelp so thick I couldn't find a way to stick my head out of the water. Have you?

@Peter_C: I have dived in kelp so thick that I would want to avoid relying on the possibility of breaking through it in order to breathe. We all have varying degrees of risk tolerance. I'm probably more conservative than the average diver.

I would agree that in most cases for moderately thick kelp paddies it's easy to simply move aside the kelp to find a place to surface.

 

[Peter_C]

@Peter_C: I have dived in kelp so thick that I would want to avoid relying on the possibility of breaking through it in order to breathe. We all have varying degrees of risk tolerance. I'm probably more conservative than the average diver.

I would agree that in most cases for moderately thick kelp paddies it's easy to simply move aside the kelp to find a place to surface.

Fair enough. I have never seen kelp that thick and did ask if SoCal kelp was different in one of my previous posts. Conservative will also keep you from running out of air and that is a good thing :cool2:

First of all, I wonder where it as ever "proven" that an OOA diver will take just take the primary. In the only cases I know of, the OOA diver went directly for the alternate. In another thread on this topic, a poster reported having seen a study that says OOA divers go for whatever they have been trained to go for. I have not seen any study myself.

First of all; I said "panicked divers" and "many" not all. Proven is pretty easy since you can research this board where there is a thread with many responses of people grabbing the reg blowing bubbles. Not a big deal just be prepared. I always know my backup is around my neck.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

First of all, I wonder where it as ever "proven" that an OOA diver will take just take the primary. In the only cases I know of, the OOA diver went directly for the alternate. In another thread on this topic, a poster reported having seen a study that says OOA divers go for whatever they have been trained to go for. I have not seen any study myself.

I strongly believe that an OOA diver will go for the first reg they see ... or the one that's easiest for them to get to ...

... which is why I believe it's better for the donor to hold a reg out at arm's length, where an OOA diver can easily see it and reach it ... keeps the donor in charge of which reg the receiver gets ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

UC Santa Cruz teaches you to lock your arms at the elbows (do-si-do). This allows you to have both hands free for your gauges and inflator hose. If you need a free hand you can let go of one and adjust as needed.
The only problem I see with this technique is that the donor HAS to be on the left side of their buddy.

With a long hose share air you have a near independent ascent for both divers involved.
Lets assume Murphy's Law takes hold and Mr. OOA has terrible buoyancy controls.
You now have a "line" attached to an person who's either sinking below you or rocketing above you.
If the person grabs a hold of the long hose to keep the reg in their mouth, you're practically stuck with them until you can get to them and do something.

The same can be said about a short hose but I feel that if your right there you can at least put some input into your buddy's inflator.

In practice, if you donate your long hose and recognize that the other diver is having buoyancy issues, there is nothing preventing you from grabbing ahold of their BCD strap or just hooking your finger through a D-ring and maintaining a closer control over the situation.

On the other hand, if once the diver gets their breathing under control they appear to be handling things OK, you now have the option of allowing a bit of separation so as to allow each diver some degree of control over their own ascent.

It's a matter of options ... if you have them, you can generally better manage a situation depending on how the recipient is responding ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mdb]

I strongly believe that an OOA diver will go for the first reg they see ... or the one that's easiest for them to get to ...

... which is why I believe it's better for the donor to hold a reg out at arm's length, where an OOA diver can easily see it and reach it ... keeps the donor in charge of which reg the receiver gets ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob:

I agree that the OOA diver will go for the first reg they see.

It is not always possible to have a reg out at arms length for the OOA diver. I have had two incidents personally where the OOA diver literally ripped my primary out of my mouth, once overhead and once straight on-face to face.

The donor will not always be in charge of what regulator will be used for the OOA diver.

 

[BabyDuck]

tell us the details!

 

[g1138]

In practice, if you donate your long hose and recognize that the other diver is having buoyancy issues, there is nothing preventing you from grabbing ahold of their BCD strap or just hooking your finger through a D-ring and maintaining a closer control over the situation.

On the other hand, if once the diver gets their breathing under control they appear to be handling things OK, you now have the option of allowing a bit of separation so as to allow each diver some degree of control over their own ascent.

It's a matter of options ... if you have them, you can generally better manage a situation depending on how the recipient is responding ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'll have to agree with that.
I'm merely just getting thoughts flowing now. =]

 

[mdb]

tell us the details!

Incident one, with a diver that I had many dives with. We had practiced buddy breathing at the end of our dives multiple times. We were hunting abalone off Point Loma, San Diego in about 60-80 FSW. He ran out of air. I was peeking underneath a rock looking at an AB family and deciding which one to take. I looked to my left and my panicked buddy ripped my primary out of my mouth and clamped down. No way I was getting that reg back anytime soon. This was in the early 70's and we did not have octo's. I made a free ascent.

Incident two off, of Grand Cayman. This was in the late 80's. In about 110 FSW an engineer with a major SCUBA company was testing a new model first stage design. The 1st stage had a massive failure and the diver came up over my head and took my primary. I had a Poseidon Cyklon 300 as a secondary and went on to that. He is a very experienced diver and once we got things sorted out we made a slow controlled ascent.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob:

I agree that the OOA diver will go for the first reg they see.

It is not always possible to have a reg out at arms length for the OOA diver. I have had two incidents personally where the OOA diver literally ripped my primary out of my mouth, once overhead and once straight on-face to face.

The donor will not always be in charge of what regulator will be used for the OOA diver.

This is very true ... it's easy to "blindside" a diver so that they don't even see you coming. And it's quite possible that an OOA diver will do so.

What I was referring to is the practice I've seen of teaching a diver to raise their arm to expose the backup reg ... allowing the OOA diver to "take" it. The problem I have with that method is that it puts a stressed diver in charge of making the decision, and assumes they'll respond as they were trained. When one has the option ... i.e. you see them coming ... it's always better to take charge of the situation and present the octo in a manner that the recipient gets the one you want them breathing from. It also reduces the time that person will be without air, as they don't have to waste time reaching for something that's being handed to them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mdb]

....When one has the option ... i.e. you see them coming ... it's always better to take charge of the situation and present the octo in a manner that the recipient gets the one you want them breathing from. It also reduces the time that person will be without air, as they don't have to waste time reaching for something that's being handed to them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob: I agree with you. When you have the option it is always better to take control of
the situation and prevent escalation. Your students are fortunate to have your style of
instruction.