Fundies kicked my a$$

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Well, actually ... some folks have been kicked off this board for being chronic PADI bashers ... and argumentative when asked to stop disrupting other people's threads. Would you like to receive equal treatment?
Is that a threat you can back up or are you just blowing bubbles? Netdoc is on the island, maybe I'll ask him.

Good to hear! Several divers whom I know and respect have used them, and I'm hearing nothing but raves. In fact, the ONLY negative I heard about them was Mossman's incident, and that occurred a decade ago. Just the fact that the owner was willing to spend that much time talking to just another diver at the show, giving me almost an hour of his time answering every one of my questions in detail (even the silly ones :wink:) says a lot about their attitude towards serving their customers. I'm very excited, and can't wait to get down there! I leave next Friday...
As I mentioned before, Dave wasn't working with Aldora when I dove with them. The hoover incident was just one complaint. Have you ever had a DM ask all the divers to hold hands on a swim against an impossible current? I did, with Aldora. You also might want to research their history with steel tanks. Didn't someone die or something because a rusty steel tank had used up all the O2? We also had made plans one day to get our gear so we could shore dive and when I showed up at the shop at the appointed time, they were closed and only opened after I hammered on the door for 10 minutes. The lady who finally let us in didn't speak English and she let us into the "secure" gear storage area unattended. If I weren't such an honest guy, I could have upgrade my gear for free.

Yes, it's ancient history if a decade is ancient, but I have a good memory and there are plenty of dive shops to choose from that also use steel tanks. We're going with one tomorrow, another for the other 3 days. I doubt either of these ops would have any problem dealing with your back issues, but you've already made your choice and I'm sure you'll have a great time no matter what. On the other hand, if you get a hoover in your group and have to abort after 45 minutes or less, don't say I didn't warn you :)
 
.....but I have a good memory.......

Maybe you should release some of the stupid bitter memories to free up some horsepower to actually learn something new. This thread would go much differently if you did.

Netdoc is on the island, maybe I'll ask him.

Welcome to grade three? Are you actually for real?
 
Rusty Steel Tanks and Aldora:

from the April, 1999 issue of Undercurrent:

A breath of fresh air is something we all take for granted, even when that air’s been bottled up inside a tank. But for diver Mike Daniels, who was diving with Aldora Divers in Cozumel last November, the air that came his way was anything but. He was in a swimthrough with 1800 psi in his steel tank when he suddenly found himself unable to draw any air at all from either his primary or alternate supply. Fortunately, Aldora’s divemaster, Alexandra, was quick to respond, and they ascended normally with a fiveminute safety stop. When they got back on the boat, they discovered that both the tank valve and first stage were completely clogged with rust that Daniels felt could only have come from Aldora’s steel tank.

Daniels was understandably upset, and Dave Dillehay of Aldora Divers bore the brunt of his wrath. Like many divers, Dillehay likes steel tanks, saying that the extra air capacity “provides a real extra margin of safety” on long dives. (He also points out that aluminum tanks aren’t corrosion-free either, although oxidation doesn’t tend to accumulate as rapidly as with steel tanks.) Dillehay had believed Aldora’s routine six-month tank inspections were frequent enough to detect any problems before they became serious. In fact, Dillehay says that Daniels’ tank had been inspected in September and was clean at the time of inspection. He believes that the rapid contamination was the result of seawater incursion that probably occurred when a tank was emptied during an unsupervised beach dive, and Aldora has since banned the use of steel tanks on beach dives. They’ve also stepped up maintenance efforts: they completed a visual inspection of all tanks within a few days of the incident, and, from now on, each tank will undergo an inverted, agitated flow test each month and be visually inspected every six months.

It’s hard to believe that a tank can rust as quickly as Aldora’s apparently did, but studies have shown that seawater, tank pressure, and tropical temperatures all significantly accelerate oxidation. In 1976, for example, the University of Rhode Island tested new pressurized cylinders to which they’d added 500 ml of salt water. The tanks were stored in a horizontal position at a temperature of 105° F. for 100 days. By the end of the test period, tanks were already severely corroded, and some had lost over two-thirds of their wall thickness. Because tanks that contained fresh water or were unpressurized or stored vertically had significantly less corrosion, the study recommended handling procedures such as fresh water rinsing and drying, storing tanks with minimum pressure, and storing them in a vertical position.

Since high-pressure steel tanks are gaining popularity, what else can dive operators do to make sure that their tanks remain rust free? Undercurrent spoke with Paul Caputo of Quiescence Diving Services in Key Largo, who handles high-pressure steel tanks in large volume. According to Caputo, frequent inspection is important, but, because even a little water can be the start of a serious rust problem and corrosion can occur very quickly in tropical temperatures, Caputo emphasizes the importance of keeping water out of tanks in the first place. Since air pressure inside the tank tends to keep water out, tanks are most likely to take on water either when the tanks are filled or if they’ve been emptied completely during the course of a dive, allowing water to be drawn in.

Tanks are vulnerable to taking on water during filling because some tank valves tend to catch water from boat spray or other sources. If the valve isn’t cracked open briefly and blown out before installing the fill whip, the water sitting in the valve will be pushed into the tank when it’s filled. If a large percentage of tanks at an operation had rust problems, Caputo said he would suspect that water was being introduced during filling. Since Aldora found contamination in only a few of its tanks, however, it’s more likely that contamination occurred when these tanks were emptied during dives (which was also Dillehay’s assessment of the problem). Quiescence’s own tank maintenance program calls for visual inspection of all tanks three or four times a year and immediate inspection of any tank that comes back empty. Additionally, tank valves are always opened briefly to blow out any water sitting in the valve before the tanks are filled. Obviously, the thousand-dollar question is, “Are the tank maintenance efforts in place at Aldora and other operations adequate to prevent other divers from experiencing the problems that Daniels did?” Dave Dillehay obviously thinks so. In fact, Dillehay’s so confident that they have a handle on the problem that he gave Undercurrent a thousand-dollar answer: “Pay $10 to open any Aldora tank, and I will pay $1000 for every flake of rust found. For those truly convinced of our lingering ‘serious tank problem,’ that could be an easy way to pay for their next dive vacation.”

Sounds like the rusty steel tanks issue was addressed back in 1999 (and did not involve a death). I can find no safety issues with Aldora in the past ten years. That's long enough for me. :)
 
Is that a threat you can back up or are you just blowing bubbles? Netdoc is on the island, maybe I'll ask him.


As I mentioned before, Dave wasn't working with Aldora when I dove with them. The hoover incident was just one complaint. Have you ever had a DM ask all the divers to hold hands on a swim against an impossible current? I did, with Aldora. You also might want to research their history with steel tanks. Didn't someone die or something because a rusty steel tank had used up all the O2? We also had made plans one day to get our gear so we could shore dive and when I showed up at the shop at the appointed time, they were closed and only opened after I hammered on the door for 10 minutes. The lady who finally let us in didn't speak English and she let us into the "secure" gear storage area unattended. If I weren't such an honest guy, I could have upgrade my gear for free.

Yes, it's ancient history if a decade is ancient, but I have a good memory and there are plenty of dive shops to choose from that also use steel tanks. We're going with one tomorrow, another for the other 3 days. I doubt either of these ops would have any problem dealing with your back issues, but you've already made your choice and I'm sure you'll have a great time no matter what. On the other hand, if you get a hoover in your group and have to abort after 45 minutes or less, don't say I didn't warn you :)

This sounds like an issue (however valid) you have with the shop, and one not totally based on your experience. So, how does this permit you to make remarks about someone else? Seems you really dont like other people having choices, especially when they differ from yours. Nor do you seem to like to deal with facts.
 
Maybe you should release some of the stupid bitter memories to free up some horsepower to actually learn something new. This thread would go much differently if you did.
So tell me, what do you think I could learn from DIR-F?

Welcome to grade three? Are you actually for real?
You might want to ask that question of the guy who made the threat. Is he for real? Are you?
 
This sounds like an issue (however valid) you have with the shop, and one not totally based on your experience. So, how does this permit you to make remarks about someone else? Seems you really dont like other people having choices, especially when they differ from yours. Nor do you seem to like to deal with facts.
1) I posted facts about Aldora. Thanks to LeeAnn for providing the backup. Besides the steel tank/oxygen depletion issue, my experience with Aldora was completely based on my experience with Aldora. That's fact.

2) I don't need your permission to make remarks about Aldora, nor do I need your permission to make remarks about other people choosing Aldora. Sure, people can make up their own minds, but isn't it better to have the facts in hand first? If someone posted here about diving after drinking a 6-pack, or diving 32% to 150', do we still need your permission in order to comment on those choices?
 
You might want to ask that question of the guy who made the threat. Is he for real? Are you?

There was no threat. Bob stated true and verifiable fact. This is something you know nothing of obviously.
 
do we still need your permission in order to comment on those choices?

You've already made yourself look like a complete ignoramus without my permission, why start asking for it now?
 
Dammit I wasn't gonna do this, but I feel compelled...

1) I posted facts about Aldora. Thanks to LeeAnn for providing the backup.

NOT TRUE.
You posted an unsubstantiated rumor that someone DIED due to Aldora's rusty steel tanks. That turned out to be completely false - it turned out to be an incident 12 years ago with one rusty tank, which was appropriately addressed both underwater (the DM obviously was competent enough to quickly respond and save him from what could have been a disaster), and above the water (changing the way they inspect & maintain their steel tanks, and prohibiting shore diving with them). The entire story showed, to me, a very responsible dive op that discovered a problem, and quickly addressed it. 12 years ago. And I could find no reports of a single problem with them since. In 12 years. As far as I'm concerned, case closed.

If someone posted here about diving after drinking a 6-pack, or diving 32% to 150', do we still need your permission in order to comment on those choices?

I strongly resent the implication that my choice to dive with Aldora is in any way comparable to someone diving after drinking alcohol, or violating safe Nitrox diving standards.

Aren't you done entertaining yourself in this thread? For crying out loud, you're in Cozumel. Wouldn't it be way more entertaining to just go diving and leave us alone to have our otherwise pleasant (except for your intrusions) conversation?

Btw, I know Pete (NetDoc) too. Dove with him last weekend at Catalina. I can't help but wonder what he'd think if he read this thread. Think he'd find it "entertaining" that you persist in harassing his otherwise peaceful community of divers for no reason other than to entertain yourself?
 
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